I tested it long ago and nothing changed (also with Warpfire and Aldrich on OFF). At that time, we came to conclusion there was no viable build where this mattered. But since the Star Pact change when Crate fell in love with preventive conversion and started putting it everywhere, this might matter a little more…
[Mechanics] Global Elemental dmg converted to X now occuring *last* in order (*after* single ele>X)?
Yeah, the whole reason spanks and I started testing this stuff was because Path of the Three was harmful conversion for a build – but we couldn’t quite figure out how it interacted with ele>vit+fire>vit from gear 
Thanks for the response Z. While you’re at it, any chance of letting us know which of the following 2 conversions take priority?
- Elemental --> X conversion, or…
- Single elemental type --> X conversion.
The testing cinder did indicated that single elemental type conversions occur first, but it’d be nice to have an actual confirmation from the devs.
Well, apparently the fact that 50% of our single elemental>X came from a skill (Pot3) might have been an unknown – but relevant – factor in our testing…
Edit: Because when it comes to ele>X vs. single ele>X without taking Pot3 into account, the order of equipping them shouldn’t really change things for us since they both convert to the same dmg type.
Thus, this whole order of equipment thing was probably always there 
We just couldn’t see it (and probably didn’t need to in order to see what’s best for the build, anyways)
But didn’t you try swapping around the order in which you equipped things?
Yes, I did; but both 0,85x0.5 (~my fire>vit+ele>vit conversion numbers in game) and 0,5x0,85 are always 0,425, no matter which way you turn it 
Order of equipment would have only mattered for us if the dmg end product of at least 2 sources of converion from gear would be different; but the only non X>vit conversion was Pot3 – a skill.
We really are the less intelligent primates, my firend; this is basic friggin’ math 
Right. Ok. I guess I’m just going to wait for someone like ya or hammy can to do the child-explainey thing to me once this mess is over.
I’m kinda confused by the whole thing as our leading theory keeps changing. 
Your confusion is warranted here, actually… because I just thought about our case a little more and it is f**kin’ messy.
I think that the reason why we didn’t understand all of this earlier might be due to a loophole(!) in the whole order of gear equipment-rule (which would mean that we were actually kind of right).
Warning: whacky theory ahead!
And that’s due to the fact that there are two major principles at work, here, that kind of compete with each other (sbd. correct me if I’m wrong!):
- conversion from skills always comes before conversion from items if at least one of the two is ele>X conversion (as pointed out by Denis & ya).
- single elemental conversion always enters a weighted pool with other single ele conversion no matter if it’s from a skill or an item (in contrast to ele>X conversion, as shown by Denis’ elemental vs elemental image gallery).
I’ll try to map it out for you what this means, using my build as an example.
Usually it should go like this:
- 50 of our 100 fire dmg becomes acid since Pot3 is a skill and comes first.
- Depending on the order of equipment, either the off-hand converts all of the remaining 50 fire>vit, or the belt converts half of the remaining fire dmg to vit (=25 points), due to how ele>X behaves within the order of conversion.
- Depending on the order of equipment, either the off-hand now converts half of the 25 points of fire dmg remaining from both Pot3 and the belt (=12.5 more points of vit), or the belt does nothing, because all fire damage has already been converted.
HOWEVER.
Since both the single ele>X conversion from skills and single ele>x from items enter the same weighted pool no matter the order in which they were applied/equipped, the 50%fire>vit and the 50%acid>vit immediately move to the same level within the order of conversion to be able to be weighted.*
*The existence of this weighting process was confirrmed via
adding another 35% fire>X from the M. darkflame chestguard to my off-hand’s 50%>vit & Pot3’s 50%>acid for a total of 135% fire>X, which reduced my acid dmg and increased my vit dmg)
And this means that
- the moment I equip my off-hand, all single ele>X conversion takes priority over ele>X conversion to be weighted against each other.
4.1. Thus we are always left with 0 fire dmg, no matter if we equip the belt first or not, since Pot3 giving us single ele>X conversion as a skill leaves its ele>X conversion no chance of ever coming first in the order of conversion. (!!!) - In the end, the ele>X conversion on the belt will always do nothing on the Pot3-version of the build. Which is kind of nice, I guess, since the only thing it could do if it worked would be to reduce my vit dmg by ~12.5% – if it is equipped at the wrong time.
Why do think this is the case?
Because, no matter whether I equip the belt or the off-hand first, my fire dmg is always 0 and my vit dmg always the same (just as my acid dmg btw).
But if my above theory wasn’t correct, I would actually have to see some amount of leftover fire dmg when equipping the ele>X belt before the single ele>X off-hand – right?
Am I just crazy or could this be a thing?
Lmao. Aite. Lemme work my way through this while I eat this here burrito.
Food for thought + food for belly.
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That makes a lot of sense. I’m going to try and paraphrase things to check if I’m understanding what you’re saying correctly. But before I go into it, I’m going to invent some terms for clarity’s sake:
- 3-ele = All 3 elemental types
- 1-ele = any one of the 3 elemental types
- Skill(s) = any skill which grants damage conversion
- Items = any item which grants damage conversion
- Buffs = any toggleable, item-granted passive which grants conversion (e.g. blood rite)
2 scenarios I’m thinking about…
- PoT3 vs Blood rite: If what you’re saying is true, PoT3 should occur first. (I’ll check this later today or tomorrow)
- PoT3 vs voidsoul helm: PoT3 is the “bigger kid” here because it’s a skill, and because voidsoul helm has 3-ele conversion.
Tangentially…as shown by dennis, when we have an ITEM-based conversion (e.g. warpfire) and a BUFF-based conversion (e.g. blood orb), the latter takes priority.
If that’s the case, it opens a whole world of possibilities, because my understanding has always been that BUFF-based conversions occur last
^Makes sense to me.
This I don’t get. If the elemental to vit conversion did work, wouldn’t you have better fire --> vit conversion? Why would that result in a DPS loss of 12.5%
EDIT: >1.5k hours of theory crafting and I just realized I still dont understand conversions.
Now that is a good idea. This is where your experience in build guide writing pays off, I guess, huh.
I actually suspected that your categories of ‘Skills’ and ‘Buffs’ are really just one category of (Granted) Skills. A quick test of Pot3 vs. Blood Rite confirmed that they do compete and probably work somewhat similarly to 3-ele vs 1-ele on gear (not sure which one of the two comes first here, though).
Because, at least to my understanding, the order of conversion with Pot3 + 1-ele & 3-ele from gear (off-hand+belt) should then be
- Pot3 first (because it is a skill) – 50/100 fire left
- if belt was equipped first: 3-ele conversion – 25/100 fire left
- 1-ele from Item can only convert another 50% of the remaining 25 fire (due to how 1-ele works when 3-ele applied first should they both come from items)
=12.5 fire damage are left unconverted (as opposed to 0 if 1-ele gear was equipped/applied first)
But such a 1-ele>3-ele>1-ele conversion order just doesn’t make sense; thus my above theory of the 3rd 1-ele jumping to 1st position in situations such as this one.
Apologies for my crappy formatting, I have no idea how to use the new forum.
I’d test this myself if I could, but I’m not on my personal computer atm. But I’m wondering if the order these things were toggled on matters, similarly to how conversions are affect by the order one equips gear.
^ I get it. Holy fuck, if this is true, this is truly on the same magnitude as morty’s mind blowers (rick & morty reference).
EDIT: If the order in which a player turns on their skills affects conversion, grava’thul’s dispel just got that much more dangerous
2nd EDIT: I guess this point is moot, but it’s got me curious too. Dennis clearly demonstrated how the order of item equipping matters. What happens if you equip them ‘simultaneously’. I.e. You know how you can actually equip 4 weapons at the same time? And you can ‘weapon swap’ between the 2 pairs?
What happens if equipped aldritch/warpfire, swapped to a different set of items, before immediately swapping back?
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<3
I think we might have very similar tastes in these regards…
And yeah, it would definitely be a R&M-level mindfuck
I just took another quick look at it, and the result is always this, no matter which buff I activate first:
But I haven’t done the actual math of how many % each of the two conversion sources get, so I don’t know if 3-ele comes first or last here…
Edit:
Oh god. What did you do. Please no. This is too much… 
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^Was just me thinking out loud
Your thinking hurts! It hurts my head space! Stop!
TL, DR last posts.
It’s time to full-scale experiments.
Let’s use this terms
So, I take Asset manager and make some tests:
Take OFF 3-ele conversions and cold to X as example of 1-ele conversion
3-ele skill have priority over 1-ele skill
3-ele skill stack with 3-ele buff
3-ele skill have priority over 1-ele buff
3-ele skill stack with 3-ele item
3-ele skill have priority over 1-ele item
1-ele skill have priority over 3-ele buff
1-ele skill stack with 1-ele buff
1-ele skill have priority over 3-ele item
1-ele skill stack with 1-ele item
3-ele buff have priority over 1-ele buff
3-ele buff stack with 3-ele item
3-ele buff have priority over 1-ele item
1-ele buff have priority 3-ele item
1-ele buff stack with 1 ele item
3-ele item and 1-ele item priority depend on equipment order (works not as intended, confirmed by Zantai)
Well, most interesting begins:
What if you have all 3 categories: skiil, buff and item?
Higher priority conversion stacks if it possible and that complex conversion recalculate priority.
Example:
50% 3-ele to X skill + 50% 1-ele to Y buff + 50% 3-ele to Z item → 100% ele to (X+Z) skill priority over Y buff.
3 Likes
That would be pretty cool 
How many (non-modded) Skills/Buffs with sub100% 1-ele conversion are out there, anyways? Are cases with Pot3 maybe even the only ones that lead to issues with 3-step ele conversion orders like the one on my build?
(summoning @sir_spanksalot for his 1.5k hour theorycrafting-fossil of a brain because mine just exploded and it was totally his fault)
Let me drink this in, while I sip on this here chocolate milk.
EDIT: @denismashutikov - I’m going to make this into a table. Thanks for taking the time to do all this.
2nd EDIT - is there even a case of a 3-ele skill?
Well; if skills granted by items are, in fact, treated as having the same priority as mastery skills, then, sure – there are a few (like Blood Rite & Beronath which were mentioned before)
But if my arbitrary terminology is being used, then blood rite would be a buff
EDIT: regardless, the TL;DR version seems to be this - in descending order of priority:
i. 3-ele
ii. Skill
iii. Buffs
iv. Item