[Mechanics] Global Elemental dmg converted to X now occuring *last* in order (*after* single ele>X)?

Grim Dawn Gameplay Discussion
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61

Like this?

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62

We need to sticky this under guides/tutorials. This is a phenomenal summary.

Could I trouble you to explain the symbols you’re using real quick? I don’t mind writing up the whole conversion thing (some time in the next month :p)

63

All correctly. Second Rite if Buff and Pot3 have priority over it.

64

Should we maybe just do a full ‘Advanced Guide on Converison Mechanics’, then, for completion’s sake?

There aren’t that many hidden rules not explained by the game guide, anyways (with the ‘order of gear equipment’ one and the ‘skill mods on gear have the same priority as skill transmuters’ one being the only additional rules that come to mind atm)

65

Arrow indicates priority conversion
Plus is stacking conversion
And Asterisk is equip depending

66

There’s an ‘up arrow’ and a ‘horizontal arrow’. I’m guessing they mean different things?

67

Arrow indicates priority conversion anyway. For example, 3-ele have priority over 1-ele in first row while same 3-ele have priority over 1-ele in 1st column.

68

Damn that’s a cool graph! :slight_smile:

Edit: we still have to figure out the priorities 1-ele & 3-ele from item buffs might have over each other, right?

That is, if ‘Buff’ vs. ‘Skill’ is not just

in the first place :stuck_out_tongue:

69

Thanks for this. This probably isn’t going to get the recognition it deserves, but this is amazing.

@cinder - I mean…‘naked cruci’ was an arbitrary term I did invent, then it became part of the vernacular. So who knows?

I remember someone commenting in one of my YT videos once, ‘why does it say naked clear, when you have items equipped.’

I choked on my water.

70

:smile:

‘Naked cruci’ does serve a real purpose in our forum discourse, though, since distinguishes ‘non-buffend/bannered’ from both ‘3buffs/1banner cruci’ and vanilla ‘cruci’ (which can actually refer to both of the aforementioned categories as kind of a supercategory).

But if conversion priority from skills & granted skills really doesn’t differ in any way (like skill mod conversion and skill transmuter conversion are treated the same, too), then… yes. Then it would be 100% redundant. :stuck_out_tongue:

Edit: calling it ‘naked cruci’ is pretty funny, though. So thank you for that :smiley:

71

I’m fairly certain of this. At least, if I’m recalling some of the testing I did ages ago.

Where it gets tricky is that some nodes in skill lines are treated as an independent damage source (e.g. explosive strike, soulfire, nightfall).

What this means is that transmuter level conversions (aka, skill modifiers) will NOT affect them.

A good example would be EoR. Even if scythe of tenebris might read ‘100% physical converted to chaos to EoR,’ the physical damage on soulfire itself will remain unconverted.

Global conversions matter in these cases.

72

I’m pretty sure I saw this used somewhere before you brought it up, too…

Wow! Thank you, that is good to know!

73

Right. So that’s another reason why EoR has been nerfed extremely hard. Moreso than other skills, EoR truly shines when you’re able to convert it all to the same damage type.

Which is partially why on those recent dunefiend builds on the forum, you see ya &/or x1x1x1x2 stacking things like gallstone, and pestilence amulet for better phys/acid conversion on soulfire.

In most cases, the skill description hints at which skill node is (or isn’t) an independent damage source. Typically it’ll say something about how the skill node will damage ‘nearby enemies’

74

Huh.

That makes it pretty hard for the phys dmg on Soulfire to be touched by most builds, right? Because phys>X converion usually comes in such small doses…

Is that part of why full phys EoR with Beronath sword is still so strong? Because it can actually convert 100% – with absolute ease?

75

Yes, and no.

Basically, we can think of spin2win builds as having 2 attacks occuring simultaneously - EoR, and soulfire.

Because these are separate damage instances, they are both gimped by enemy armor.

So if my in-game value of EoR shows a damage value of 10k, and soulfire having a damage value of 10k, that damage would be dealt as 2 separate attacks amounting to a total of 20k.

However, if I were attacking a target with 10k armor and 100% absorption, then I would deal 0 damage to it, despite a sheet DPS value of 20k.

EDIT: Of course this would be excellent on enemies with low armor, or low phys res.

Which is why in my WB EoR build, I did everything I could to maximize %physical damage and -RR

76

Yeah, EoR with its ~10 tiny ticks per second is quite problematic in that way…

But it works very well if done right, regardless, doesn’t it?

(man… we are so far off-topic right now :laughing:)

77

Right. PM’d you instead. :stuck_out_tongue:

78

Thank you :stuck_out_tongue:

But I’m wondering what to do with this thread now, in any case…

Should I just do a quick update in OP with our new theories and then leave it until this info it can be moved to guides/tutorials in a neater fashion? :confused:

79

I would wait for Z to let us know about the changes he’s going to make, because he did mention that the order-you-equip-items-thing is bugged. Once those changes are made, and the dust has settled, it’ll be worth consolidating all this into a post.

What would be inconvenient, however, is to do up a long us explanation, only for things to change again

80

Yeah… If they just changed the whole order-of-equipment thing into sth with fixed priorities, this whole issue could go away pretty easily :slight_smile:

And that’s what his post further up seemed to indicate, at least to me…

(If this issue has been known to exist for a while now I do wonder why they didn’t do anything about it earlier though)