Edited stats vs in-game drop. The specific item is irrelevant.
My Best in Game builds have some good, some bad, and some very bad gear, but even with all bad gear they can still run a SR90 solo as claimed. Build guides are mostly for players without an editor.
I hope this helps:
Answer the question: Legit vs Editor Build
what does this mean?
the save editor doesntâ edit stats, it spawns random vanilla potential items with actual ingame seeds; and the exact corresponding stats to that seed (because the game itself not the editor determines that/the game creates the stats on the seed)
are you mixing up spawning illegitimate items, as in legendaries with affixes/items that canât be obtained ingame
or are just technicality wise not aware how items and the editor works?
sry, not only doesnât it help, but it really seems to hammer home the misconception you have both surrounding grimtools GTs and editors, and the fundamental base functionality of the game itself/items/ingame items?
wait, wait, please correct me if iâm wrong,
but the way you talk, as in using X build you created vs another builderâs/âeditorâ created; do you think items are the same for different players/should be the same for different players?
so like, if i use your pet/shieldbreaker/trickster build, i would have the same stats ingame? thus automatically the same performance? - is that where the misunderstanding comes from re edited stats? (or do you mean something else entirely?)
Is lack of editor preventing you from putting more than 3 points into Blast Shield or putting together a devotion map with proper sustain sources like Behemoth/Scythe and/or Dryad? Your builds have better monster infrequent items than my âeditorâ builds.
So when you start reviewing our build there you are instantly changing a key piece of equipment - Solael-Sect pants which are crucial for the build. Then you are actually not even replicating it properly, your stat distribution is absolutely off. And then instead of fighting Iron Maiden you are running away from her letting her hit you while not standing your ground and leeching.
I am not sure at this point if you are doing this act deliberately or you are that delusional. Because in your other video you were seriously proclaiming that Nightblade is a great pairing for pet Occultist because of Veil of Shadow and Pneumatic Burst while having just one pointed both of those skills.
because i can explain this
which has nothing to do with editor stats/âunrealistic stats from spawning illegitimate itemsâ
(and itâs actually why youâve seen a lot of build guides/guide approach change over time)
From now on please ask only one question and I will answer.
IE:
Yes, that is a great build.
No. If I say it can do SR90 with legit drops then it isnât very likely you will die to the first boss even with low grade gear. You can easily farm better than most of mine. Look close.
cool, then the question is
why do you think people failing/dying, or even you dying, running ex a MadLee build, is related to unrealistic stats/edited stats/items that canât be obtained ingame/without an editor/the build not working without being created by an editor? (i know itâs seems like multiple questions but itâs actually the same 1 just exampled in different ways to try make it more clear)
*iâll spoil it a bit by saying, this very issue has both been raised to your builds/earlier in this thread by others, - and iâve personally experienced it too
just curious what you think/why it/âdeathâ = stats must be edited on othersâ builds
Because I have followed 5 build guides using legit gear in the past and none came remotely close to the claims. Apples and oranges. We donât all have to build the same way, peace.
awesome, so, now weâre at the centre of it
do you think there is a difference(inherent or otherwise) in terms of âplayer required focusâ or âskill ceiling/floorâ from some builds/archetypes to others?
do you think all players are equally good at playing the game/controlling a character?
again iâll spoil it by reminding that others have played your builds, and not had the same perception of performance as you do
and iâve played some your builds (and Lee/Banana/Maya/âforumâ), and died and not died and both - is that an indicator of the/your/their build, or the person playing the build?
Is that true? You didnât just make that up did you 
Iâm fairly sure that if you tried one of my builds we would not be having this discussion.
you literally have seen and responded to people in this very thread playing your setups, but not sharing your opinion about their strength/ease
i have tried multiple of your builds
and i have both died and not died
spoiler; because iâm a very monkey player - i even mentioned how to handle it/âadjust for my monkeynessâ
and thatâs really the core of it
youâre ânot so indirectly sayingâ, that because you/someone else have died/failed playing X build, that = the build must be invalid/edited/using illegitimate stats âbecause otherwise that fail would not occurâ
the issue is however plentiful with that, one being it just inherently ignores the concept of player control/âskillâ, the other being that very statement/argument/reasoning, can then be applied to your builds
hell iâm sure i (and others) could still die if we used your exact save and not our own slightly different rolled items/char with inherent avg stat variable - because player control matters in the success of a build
But yes, build archetype ease is a thing too, so some builds will default have a lower required player attention than others (idono if it makes it better or worse when then failing/dying playing those builds 
), itâs even why some prefer a specific build type because just less requirements.
And pets, previously retal, just easily fell more into that âlaid backâ style
Playing a build where you donât have something tanking for you, and constantly eating Sunders to your face, specially while already sundered, will 100% impact your experience/character performance âon the same buildâ vs a player that donât eat those same sunders. - but thatâs a matter of character ease not of build/stat validity
I think thatâs probably the main issue i take with your statements, youâre not differentiating remotely between player control, but equating fail to illegitimate items if others show success, when in reality your pet builds is just easier to control/have less pilot engagement necessary. - youâre effectively saying people are cheating because they are playing better than people dying⊠which is kinda⊠woah
So, me dying on your, Archon like 10x, or Warlock? (legit dontâ remember now sry) half a dozen times until changing a few skills and devos, are we gonna blame that on me not have the exact rolls your items did, the build being invalid/âmust been editor createdâ; or me playing like an absolute monkey and being a bit slow to get the hang of things?
because i know which of the 3 it is - the difference is just who weâre trying to make look bad/better
No, I am saying if a build requires gear generated outside of the game, logically, it canât be the best in-game.
Are we sure you followed them exactly? The affixes can change, but the MIâs themselves must be the same, Also note the skills and devotions have very little wiggle room.
If following a SR90 Very Easy build, and before you are able to farm reasonable affixes you should be able to survive a SR90. I estimate 2-5 gaming days following my MI run and you will be in âBest in Gameâ territory.
again, it doesnât?
which part do you keep confusing with this
gear generated by the save editor is not different than the gear obtained or possible to obtained ingame; âitâs generating gear based on random seeds that the game treats equallyâ - this is even how one would be able to copy your exact character down to 100% 1:1 stats, by using the same item seeds⊠
there are no more or no less stats on the items, there are no more or less stats possible on the items than stuff you have actually found ingame (unless one deliberately spawns illegitimate items like legendaries with affixes âbut thatâs also not what weâre talking about hereâ)
It really really seems to sound like you fundamentally misunderstand both how the editor itself works, but also how the game and ingame item generation works?
yes, âthatâs how it worksâ, only difference is our rolls/exact stat ranges on the items will vary since not using your direct save, so i can have slightly higher stat A but slightly lower stat B with the same item/affix
again you seem to fundamentally mix up things or misunderstand what iâm saying?
iâm saying, even if you sent me your save file, âbecause i donât play as well with pets, or specifcally low heal low mitigation pet setupsâ; i die more easily- because iâm not that that well adjusted to the build/playstyle 
i can control other setups totally fine and survive, including some of yours; the difference is in their inherent build capabilities via their specific setups
or, as i mentioned; if tweaked to have more healing it becomes easier for me 
(and played less aggressive than usual)
ânot saying youâre not aware of thisâ, - itâs just for clarification/posterity should it be useful to return to
here is Beastcaller shoulder as illustrated by grimtools with avg rolls
and here we have the shoulders with the min max variable (±1 on some stuff/scaling roundings)
*obviously this doesnât mean the item only exists in those 3 forms/min, max or mid
the game uses an 8digit hex seed,
so there is like a couple billion possible seed variations to fluctuate the various stat combinations up/dow between that min max value, in varying ways. -+ whatever formula jank
(we know that 0 seed (00000000) min rolls every stat btw, but there is no universal max roll seed 
)
so, the chance you will ever land at all min rolled stats, or all max rolled, or all avg rolled is not that high
the chance you can drop hundreds or maybe even thousands (depending on the actual stat allotment) of the same item, and not see the exact same stats/stat ranges is pretty decent
if however you drop/spawn/duplicate (can dupe ingame remember) the same seeded item, it will have the exact same stats everytime, because the stats are tied to the seed values (actually dropping same seed item would ofc be statistically pretty unlikely) - and using the same seed for a different item with more/less stat slots , would yield different rolls on that different item
^the editor uses random seeds, just like the ingame spawning, and just like if you had dropped that actual seed ingame, the game will present it the exact same stat values tied to that seed for those ranges
or, to perhaps easier illustrate, with the above GT snaps in mind and your stat prowess; which of these is legit and illegitimate/spawned by editor vs dropped ingame
1 
2 
3 
4 
*this is not a trick question btw, there is both legit ingame obtained shoulder and freshly editor spawned mixed in there
I think you should change âlogicallyâ to âin my opinionâ. Same with most of the builds that posted here. Several more experienced and more trusted builders/veterans pointed out several times how your stuff is not just far from âbestâ but actually pretty poor compared to the actual top performers. And yet you keep pedaling your own delusional takes framing them like the ultimate truth.
While the simple truth is that your own videos perfectly demonstrate how you lack depth in your understanding of endgame balance/meta (stuff like taking Nightblade into a pet build just for dual wielding and then saying how important Veil of Shadow is because of its total speed debuff (not true btw) and having just one point in it, or making dot Shieldbreaker with 2300 OA etc. etc.).
Moreover in your video named âLegit vs. Editor Buildâ you are actively sabotaging what you call âourâ build by playing it without some key items and with 2200 OA (how did you even do that OA, did you not put augments on?). Not only that but you are actively trying not to fight Iron Maiden on it, running away and commenting on how this build is no good for SR 90. When everyone with minimal experience in playing GD in endgame knows that with any melee build you rarely kite, you are supposed to stand and fight and leech.
If you generate 1,000 items in seconds and take the very best⊠I think you get it.
Also as mentioned before I have downloaded saves to investigate claims of greatness.
One had a video of the build destroying a SR90, but when I downloaded the save, the SR was never even unlocked. Please donât try and explain why :). Itâs not cheating if itâs not multiplayer.
For me, without farming for gear there is zero reason to play.
⊠you may as well drop an almost perfectly-rolled item in-game.
well that was your âinvestigationâ? You downloaded one save file, it didnât have SR unlocked and you stopped there? Did you think you could ask us in the thread for the updated save file or try different save files maybe? Nope, you went ahead and ârecreatedâ our Korba build but with no OA, changed pants on it and then played it like itâs a kiting caster and concluded that itâs no good.
But also maybe a top20 thread that was made by several experienced builders, that has 100k views at this point, that was generally praised and received tons of positive feedback, so much so it was pinned by Crate here in this forum section, maybe there is more truth to it than to your âbest in game buildsâ that have been debunked right here by several people?
which is both
A, not whatâs being done here
and B âtechnicallyâ still not an invalid item, as it has the same potential 1/xBillion chance to drop ingame legit
again, youâre trying to cherrypick nitpicks to fit your argument, when the fundamental part of it is both flawed and incorrect
hence why i mentioned flipping it on its head;
if i fail/die on your build, does it mean you used editor spawned items? or that i suck at piloting it to the same degree?
because that is the exact same logic reasoning and argument youâre applying to everyone else and to dismiss other builders/builds and success clears
well, ignoring you also claimed an earlier save didnât work, which 3-4 people used and it worked fine
allow me to offer some possible explanation even if you donât care, just so we dontâ go further off tangent
some saves donât actually load into Ulti where SR is unlocked, - iâve loaded into Normal/Elite multiple times
some saves donât have the eternal? stone on them , which was the case with my latest one
lastly some are made on a template char that doesnât have everything unlocked (tho if it was the actual played save thatâs not the thing) - because it was made pre editor and more manually
sry, i legit donât know what you mean by this
thatâs not also not remotely an argument anyone has ever raised or even is attempting to make anywhere?
ok
Yes, it was that build and exactly as I explained a few times now.
Thatâs not what you have been trying to get across from the very beginning that edited characters are exactly the same as legit?
Itâs happened a few times. Fishy editor glitch is not the best way to claim legit
Letâs take a break. Our circles are going in circles.
i am saying you canât dismiss builds, deaths, performance difference as âbecause the must have been spawned with invalid statsâ
why am i saying that; because the editor doesntâ spawn us super stats/grant super builds or turn a sht build to greatness
and, that the builds presented/the ones in ex the top20 that is editor spawned; dontâ use invalid stats (remotely) - nor does their performance require editor spawned stats/illegitimate stats to work
^people are dying/failing because they are either not using close enough setups (like having half the lifesteal using different items), or theyâre just not as good at controlling the character
again, iâm redirecting you to the question of which of the 4 items shown is editor spawned and illegitimate?
because that is the type of items most people get when using the editor
*there is 100% a fair few cases where people spawn more than 1 item and cherrypick the best, and there are even several that spawn a lot (not 1000) and pick the best,
^but youâre severely misunderstanding the effect it has if you think an above avg rolled item critically impacts most builds,
(i say most because there are some builds that wont function without certain rolls; but i guarantee you most builds you see presented are not those as they are quickly picked apart)
or to repeat, using the editor, doesnât change a bad or shit build into functioning or superman, +10% stat range doesnât polish a toilet that much
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