My honest as fuck opinion about GD and comparison to TQ part 2

This is the continuation of My honest as fuck opinion about GD and comparison to TQ

Now that I think of it, there was one time when I thought “Maybe Grim Dawn is actually better than Titan Quest?”, and after I thought that, I was getting bored of GD, Crate started to make changes I don’t like, and overall, I wasn’t liking the game as much as before. Then new TQ DLC came out, played a little, thought about GD again, and I felt that I never really liked anything about GD that much. Sure, combat stuff was interesting, conversions, skill modifiers etc, but when I thought about it deeply, I realized that it is not healthy for the game at all as it limits build diversity and doesn’t allow us to make some other fun builds because it’s either too weak and your build is becoming bad or doesn’t allow you to do what you want.

I never really liked the areas of GD, the story, soundtrack or itemization, but I kept playing this game for 776 hours thinking I’ll beat it and like something more about this game. This never happened, Crate started to implement weird changes, started to ignore regular players and listened to players that squeezed builds to the limits to beat Crucible etc. Game balancing was getting worse and worse thanks to Crucible racers.

QoL changes were forced by Crate even for people that didn’t really like them. Balancing was left out, some masteries were/are bad for months. Game started to feel like Crate doesn’t really care anymore and only wants to please the players that squeeze builds to the limits and give stupid feedbacks based on squeezed builds, rather than regular builds.

What did THQ Nordic do with TQ? They added QoL changes that can be chosen by the user how THEY like them, listened to every feedback, are still listening to them. Try to do their best to make the game better. They basically revived TQ and made it a better game overall. It really feels like Crate is burying their game into the ground. Maybe preparation for the City Builder? Maybe for GD2? But the changes that are happening to GD basically please the vast majority of players, but destroy the fun of other people. A game should be built around everyone, not around the vast majority.

I don’t feel like coming back to GD anymore. The recent “QoL” changes basically threw the game to the trash can, at least for me. During the past month, I felt like playing TQ as I was burnt out of GD and knew the new changes are coming, so I wanted to forget about GD already. Played TQ for about 10 hours, maybe a little more. I thought that I really want to play it again, so I jumped from 54 hours to 241 hours and I still feel like I do not have enough. Feels to me like back when I picked GD for the first time, where then it felt to me like I picked TQ for the first time. Hopefully the chain will loop instead of developing an end.

GD felt kind of boring to me after 400+ hours. Sure, I still had much fun leveling my characters, trying out new builds etc. While playing TQ, farming, I realized that this is another factor that killed GD for me. Farming is not rewarding at all for me, if it comes to GD. It’s basically pointless because from literally checking out a build I was getting enough materials, legendaries and other important stuff that farming was literally pointless. I really enjoyed farming in TQ, back in the day, in GD I loved Nemesis hunting, but Nemeses were just made and forgotten - Crucible and SR gave way better loot, could drop nemesis MI and effectively had way higher chance to drop a double rare MI because of how many items dropped. I even did a feedback thread about Nemesis monsters, but apparently they’re supposed to be only to be beaten by level 94 finished builds and don’t give anything for killing them, because my feedback was posted few months ago and nothing changed since then.

GD has lost everything that was fun, became a racing game and no one cares about if a build is fun to play, weak, strong or OP. It’s all about which build can do Crucible 150 - 170 in less than 8 minutes. Your build can’t do Crucible 170 because you only wanted it to farm components and be fun as fuck? NOPE! YOUR BUILD SUCKS, YOU SUCK, STOP POSTING BUILDS! I actually felt to that trap once and I also commented on someone’s build that they could do it better. I didn’t realize that until I did that twice or thrice, then realized that this game, Grim Dawn, is not about having fun anymore, but about who is better. Someone copied someone’s build, gave credit to someone completely different to troll people, then GD players showed that this game is not for fun, it’s who’s better and that “we have thieves in this forum”. GD became a serious racing game. Fun doesn’t apply anymore.

Anyway, I wanted to thank Crate because they taught me something. They taught me that you should never join any forums about offline games, and that you should not pick up games that were already made years ago. There’s nothing bad about the second lesson, because it just says that if you’ve played a game that looked similar, then even though it’s better, it doesn’t actually mean it is better. The game might look newer, better, but in reality copied games develop or revive nostalgia, which takes you back to the days where you played the “previous version” and had tons of fun. If you really enjoyed those times, no matter what happens you’ll always come back to the old “trash”, because even though the graphics are no longer top tier, the gameplay is way better.

I’ve always been saying that newer games will never be as good as the old ones, because the old ones were made to give people fun, entertain, suck you in, while the new ones are only made to get some money. I thought it’s not the case with GD, and, frankly, it was not at all, but in the end it seems that Crate doesn’t actually care anymore about everyone, but about some.

Anyway, thanks for reading. Thank you Crate, because you did a great job, maybe not with GD, as for me, but in general. Making a game is not only about being appreciated for the game, but also for what you teach. Also, thank you to everyone that was not a miserable landlubber and that I made friends with.

If you didn’t read the whole essay, do not even comment, please.


After all the bullshit I just read, I do hope you’re done here…

I can help you out for old time’s sake, if you’d like. Ban you at your request, but this time forever! :smiley:





bloated wall of text :frowning:


it took THQ Nordic 3 years (after AE’s release) to add QoL changes , im no game developer but i doubt it’s hard to implement quick cast , and i doubt even more that it takes 3 years of coding to do it , but still , the global stash (or whatever it’s called) is still as small as it has been since Immortal Throne back in 2007 , guess we’ll have to wait for another expansion for them to increase the space, cant wait!
about Atlantis , they added more questionable stuff to the game , like items that are either barely useful or insanely overpowered (just like Ragnarok , unsurprisingly) , or that one useless feature which is supposed to show you how much longer your buff will last , when in fact all it manages to do is confuse you even more ( , look in the top left)
oh boy dont get me started on the Tartarus Arena , mutator which increases the aggro range of enemies? or gives enemy mana leech? or banning pets from playing the mode? what were they onto here?
THQ Nordic have done nothing but make the game more of a mess than it already was , they had a metric fuck ton of time to fix the mess Iron Lore had created a decade ago, but they chose not to

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“Old games good new games bad” is a such a ridiculous stance to have and it does a complete disservice to all the great games that came out in recent times, and also conveniently forgets all the junk that came out at the time of the so called “good games from the past”.



I never reply to threads on here, as a rule. But I just have to chime in on this one. Everything you wrote is so bitter and skewed toward rubbing your distaste in the face of the devs here that it left me really frustrated.

Whenever I read posts like this I feel terrible for Zantai and the team that continues to pour their hard work into GD. Delivering huge chunks of content and some of the best QOL features in the genre, often for free, for no other reason than to help you have more fun playing a video game.

Please feel free to play whatever makes you happy and if that isn’t Grim Dawn… get lost.


ok, so, you felt the game was boring to you, but you had much fun leveling and trying out new builds still, so in fact not that boring after all
which was it? boring or much fun?

also, are you really saying farming is pointless because you have GDstashed builds you try out and while trying them you get enough materials to not need to farm?
or are you leveling those builds you like to try out?
in which case farming is pointless because of build diversity?


anyway, normally when I quit a game I just move on without the need for attention from its community and devs


Look at me, commenting after not reading that essay.



I am always surprised to read such radical opinion from game and forum veteran. I dislike everything about Grim Dawn, but I keep on playing for another 777 hours or different number.

If you hear that opinion from someone’s just starting, ok maybe they don’t like it. Everyone have different opinion and I respect that and their personal taste. But reading such bulshit, wow! For the protocol I read the entire essay, so am qualified enough to comment.


seeing this makes it hard to take your opinion too serious since I personally find it asinine to play a game you dont find enjoyable for 776 hours hoping something will change your mind.

also, I read your entire post. so feel free to ignore this miserable landlubbers comment =) and I wish you the best in finding a game you do enjoy, so when you put that much time into it, you will see how you should have moved onto it instead of spending so much in one you did not like before.


Thanks for the TED Talk.

(yes I read your whole post so I have permission to comment)


You can’t blame crate for people posting builds on the forum. You do not need to read here to play the game you know. And even though the wast majority of builds being posted are aimed towards late end-game content and crucible speed-running etc, does not mean that more “casual” or “normal” builds or approaches to builds and game-play are not welcome. It is not like you see Big Z, Grava or the moderators bashing people’s builds just because they do not do SR 80 or sub 5 min crucible… I know this can be hard, but you have to separate the official forum of a game and the game itself. Myself, I always like to be active on the forums/communities of the game I play (because I mostly play single-player focused games and having a place to interact about the game that I like to play makes me feel part of something “bigger” so to say. It effectively substitutes the “need” of a guild or group to play with). Bloated wall of text no-one will ever read this garbage anyway. In Grim Dawn, I would say the interaction with other forum-members, discussing builds, theory-crafting builds in Grim Tools, item changes and gameplay strategies is for me - just as fun as playing the game itself.


This is literally ridiculous. Your description of Crate’s philosophy for this game is utterly, unequivocally and demonstrably false.

And some things you wrote sound just nonsensical. TQ:AE (and Ragnarok and Atlantis) are better in terms of qol features than GD? Like, what? You trippin, bro?

Now I’m mad at myself for reading your post in its entirety


Glad that you’ll be gone (if you’re serious). Your absurd whining was getting annoying. I hope that you can resolve whatever personal issue that makes you so bitter. Buh bye!


The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few or the individual. So it’s normal changes to be according to the majority, not minority. Plus tell me how Crate can make the game to please everyone? That’s impossible. Always will be people that will not like it. But these people will quit right away or after they reach their struggle or something they don’t like.

Second phrase- so you don’t think there should be common courtesy and manners among people in the forum? Why we even need rules, written or contextual? Fun is subjective term. Different people having fun in different parts. 90% of my time spent in game was just leveling builds and I enjoyed just that. But now my fun, is making builds for Crucible. I am criminal for doing that, probably.

Third paragraph? What’s your problem with having registration in forum? Forum will give you chance to offer your point of view and change the things, you don’t like. Of course if you don’t write with your bottom parts :smile:


bro, you making the devs mad, now they going to release another expansion :sweat_smile:


Don’t listen to this nonsense Devs, you guys are doing an AMAZING job!!


I’ve to kinda agree with this statement. The past Years when i was active in this Forum (often “only” reading hardly “writing” or "participate in this forum… it’s only since FG that i’ve gotten more active on this side…), the majority of your Posts looked negative for me… with a lot of bitter and salt behind it, but i often tend to think that you either enjoy to being controversal(a.k.a troll), or there is some kind of humor / parody behind it, which i didn’t get but it’s meant to reflect the whole critiques and whining in an cynical way.

But recently, and now finally with this Topic, you showed your (maybe already obvious) true colors of someone who being an Titan Quest Fan(boy), which didn’t get by all it’s similarities, that Grim Dawn was and still will be it’s own game. Which means that while TQ Veterans and Fans might have an easier access, not neccessary guarantee that you’ll like GD as much as TQ etc… like not every Diablo (3) Fan will like GD either. You can’t please everyone, so obviously GD can’t and TQ couldn’t either. You mourne about your Time about GD? Well i can do the same with TQ because while it was the first proper ARPG which i did consider as “alternative” for Diablo Series, it never catched me and hold me as long as any Diablo or even Grim Dawn. (Let aside the absolute horrible console port of the Game).

And about QoL Features, i’d like to know what you are actually talking about. The majority of this Features you neither need to use, nor are enabled by default… and the ones which are you can easily disable. You don’t like Healthbars on screen? Disable it. You don’t like autopickup? Disable it! Don’t like the searchbars? Don’t use it…

Than again, i read through all of your non-sense and not even get the half of it. You blame crate for alot of things which is Community based(builds and such). You blame Crate that they stay true to their Vision, instead of fucking up by trying to please everyone, which in the majority of examples / cases in Games-History never worked out, because it only can halfheartly cater all sides, which ends up making the game mediocre or worse. Which than leads to the next lie of you like “ol’ games catered to everyone and to be fun”, which is wrong to - because back in the ol’ days games were still allowed to be niche and stay true to their vision. It was a time were gamers was still adventerous and open enough for Games. Nowdays every Game needs to offer modern Standarts, and if it doesn’t it’s archaic, outdated and old… even worse they are “trash games”. How many salty threads we had about an Grim Dawn 201* which doesn’t offer dedicated Servers and is bad because of that.

Than you even discredit Crate for all the work they do, only because you can’t get over your own childish nature and blame them for being displeased that they simply don’t cater towards your needs but rather implement stuff as they see fit for THEIR Game, THEIR VISION.

So yeah, i’ve again to agree with @toapeiron even if it sounds rude(and to be clear, i don’t even feel bad about it, because you are rude yourself as well… so why should i emphasis with you, if you can’t do the same), you are really one of the very few person which i hope with this topic to be gone and never come back, because atleast i won’t miss you in this Forums. (and i’ve to point out, it’s not due you dislike GD and the road devs have taken, but rather your attitude and how you express it, and while i fully understand that GD isn’t everyone cups of tea, and they prefer other games… i’d still argue folks like that could better by moving on to their game instead trashtalk the game and devs they don’t like). Still, even with saying that - i wish you luck and fun for the future, and hope you find happyness with your old (or new) Games.

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There are things I like and things I am not that fond of.

But I certainly feel I got my money’s worth for the number of hours I have enjoyed thus far.

700+ hours… I am always surprised at peeps that say no good after such a time investment…I’d say that is a bargain. If anything, you’re an idiot if you put so much time into something you don’t like and have a choice.

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