Wow, OK. First of all, there has never been a change as drastic as changing what item type a weapon is. A dual wield set changed to 2 two-handed weapons so the set bonus is impossible? Your hypothetical situation here is ridiculous and absurd. Nothing like this has ever happened or will ever happen.
Second, the build you are describing is a pet build. 2 familiars, 2 briarthorns is not a “build”. It is a pet build, and pet builds are still top performers.
I’m not sure how anything affects more casual players really. It all sounds very dramatic.
Yet that is exactly what happened with Will of Bysmiel. It got changed so that the "set “bonus” of 2 birds + 2 Briars is now impossible. So… you were saying?
Second, the build you are describing is a pet build. 2 familiars, 2 briarthorns is not a “build”. It is a pet build, and pet builds are still top performers.
Um…
Let’s not have a silly semantics argument. We define “dead” differently.
Usually it refers to a character being ruined.
Like in league when some nerfs happen they call a character dead because it’s unworkable no matter how you build that character in game.
Having to swap some items or change devotion just doesn’t constitute a dead build to me.
If your complaint is “Thematically my build is no longer the same because I lost a pet.” Then I’d say that’s not a huge deal.
Again, all the bullshit I read aside:
I have 130 characters of all different kinds of builds.
The huge portion of them perform pretty much identically to how they did before.
Another huge portion of them perform somewhat better.
Only a small minority perform worse… and those or often the ones I had that even I felt were overtuned in the first place.
This does not strike me as bad patches that are killing builds.
Neither. I was just playing devil’s advocate 
and trying to let you, hardcore players, understand that for more casual players, or beginners who finally managed to get the gear for a “great build”, a simple nerf might hit much harder then what you thought due to lack of alternative gear to “rebuild” around. I also appreciate how you didn’t quote the part where i pointed that the OP’s reaction was excessive :rolleyes:
I wasn’t even criticizing the changes, i don’t know what build the OP considers “dead”, but it’s easy when you have a full stash to reply with “just change for the new BiS item”, except that not everyone have a “new BiS” waiting to be used.
I’m not trying to say that balance patches are bad or that completely OP items should be left untouched. Balancing is hard, especially in a game with so many variables. I’m just trying to point that a reaction like that of the OP is understandable, if a bit excessive, and that just throwing “shut up and change for new BiS item” will help noone (big caricature of some actual answers here, don’t take it bad, but that’s how it could be perceived).
I hope i made it clear that i’m not trying to attack anyone (not even you mamba, we all used partial quotes that changed the meaning of the quoted post, more often than not involuntarily). I’m not even sure OP is actually expecting an answer so i’ll stop feeding the troll at that point, we don’t want fat fleshwarped trolls do we? 
So you are now comparing an arpg with a moba?
My complaint is that the Double Familiar, Double Braiarthorn builds are dead. Nothing more, nothing less. And yes, it is literally “unworkable” since that combo is impossible now.
You want to argue that it was necessary for balance? Then that is a different argument, but still one I’d disagree with.
You want to argue that pet builds haven’t been nerfed to the ground just because of the WoB change? I’d agree, but point out that it has nothing to do with anything I said here, since I never made a claim to the contrary.
Seems more like you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
I did not put much emphasis on that, same as you
i can understand the frustration of someone who finally managed to assemble one great build and finds that a patch suddenly made that build merely decent, even if capitalized “screwed” might be a bit of an exaggeration
I’m just trying to point that a reaction like that of the OP is understandable, if a bit excessive
it is entirely excessive, he cannot even come up with one good example of a dead build…
I hope i made it clear that i’m not trying to attack anyone (not even you mamba
this is not an attack on you either, we are having a discussion, no more
no, he gave an example from a moba
My complaint is that the Double Familiar, Double Braiarthorn builds are dead. Nothing more, nothing less.
yes, that no longer is possible, but if there is no real impact outside of that fact, then I don;t see this as more than a curiosity
You want to argue that pet builds haven’t been nerfed to the ground just because of the WoB change? I’d agree, but point out that it has nothing to do with anything I said here, since I never made a claim to the contrary.
but the OP did say that, seems you do not agree with him either
I am not. We just use dead in different contexts. I was clarifying that dead is normally a complaint that their character was ruined. Not simply changed.
I am arguing that accurate communication gives better results. I am telling you that when you claim your build is dead, the developers think you mean that the balance changes made have made it impossible for your character to do well without changing it completely.
It’s perfectly fair and fine not to like the lost familiar. I like having lots of pets too, and in different combinations/variations.
I think your feedback would be more constructive simply as “I didn’t like that you moved the familiar bonus off these items. I would like them back or another way to make it possible to have 2 briarthorns and 2 familiars.” Or something like that.
If you disagree then we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
But Inquisitor is broken. How can any build with Inquisitor be dead?
I do though…
but the OP did say that, seems you do not agree with him either
He said, “Familiar conjurers”. Which is technically true until FG releases and for everyone who choose not to buy the expansion but have updated to the current patch.
We use dead in the same context. We use builds in different contexts.
Also, why do you think the devs would think that pet builds are dead when I made no such implications? and why do you think I don’t like the lost familiar?
I was making an observation, not a complaint. Infact I personally like the changes. Just waiting for FG to release.
The more nerfs we get, the harder the game becomes. The harder the game is, the better the gameplay. Killing stuff under 5 seconds with a pet build is nothing fun, well it is but only for few minutes. Using one item set on any build that doesn’t even have a synergy with it is also fun, but then you realize every build you make has the same items but another masteries, so it’s getting not fun at all. A mastery that is overused because it has everything and does everything better than any other mastery is totally fun because it’s unfun as fuck even to see in the build compendium. I literally stopped playing the game after Crate went full “let’s make demolitionist good again” mode and made Nex and Ortus broken as fuck and everyone used it. There were one build that was not N&O focused during the time they were OP, so I didn’t even bother playing the game.
You should not look at the items that are OP, in my opinion. If you’re making a build that looks too strong to you, and you know you won’t like it when it’ll be nerfed, let it be theorycrafted till next patch hits. This way you’ll have a build that looks super nice to you and will have fun when you’ll play it after nerfs. Double Raven/Hellhound/Bariarthorn were all too strong, and I knew they’ll be nerfed soon, so I’ve never bothered getting the full Beastcaller set or others (that increase the summon limit). It’s better to focus on weak builds and trying to make them good (for example an Obsidian Tremor that hits for 200+k per projectile on hit), in my opinion, of course.
Cheers and hope you’ll view all nerfs as balance change/adjustment instead of nerfs.
that is fine, we can disagree
He said, “Familiar conjurers”. Which is technically true until FG releases and for everyone who choose not to buy the expansion but have updated to the current patch.
not sure what FG has to do with it, nor do I agree that pet / familiar conjurers are now dead. I agree they cannot have two familiars, but that is not at all the same thing as dead…
The new Bysmiel’s set is only available with FG. So if you want a familiar conjurer with focus on the familiar as opposed to a pet conjurer with a raven familiar, the current option is to just play with a much weakened version.
Speak for yourself. If I want harder gameplay, I’d go play DarkSouls naked
Speak for yourself. If I want harder gameplay, I’d go play DarkSouls naked
By “the developers think” I meant that that’s how they perceive the complaint, not that they inherently believe it.
And the reason is because if you look over on the old patch notes and even this one, most of the time people refer to a build being dead they’re saying it won’t be good anymore or won’t be able to do crucible 150-170 anymore.
See: 1.0.7 spellbinder changes via starpact.
No, no…
I said a specific pet build is no longer possible and hence dead. You are saying that they will perceive it as all pet conjurers are dead.
Why?
I seem to recall you arguing drops should be even less likely. You can’t argue both ways… Now you are arguing that a few changes and limited time-in-game reduces item choices and will kill interest and contradicting that by stating that not getting any drops increases interest?
Re: pet sets = step in the right direction imho. Having to choose which double-pet is good for variety.
That’s kinda off the track. The fact he says that it’s a big deal, for someone who doesn’t play frequently, that a +1 summon is something big doesn’t mean he plays the game once a week. I didn’t play the game quite often during the last 9 months, because only 6 hours a week, and I still felt like the drops are too high, and some people can think the opposite. He only talked about other people, not about himself.
