As it often goes with game design, sometimes difficult decisions have to be made that can have a broad impact on the game as a whole, but the changes can ultimately result in a better game.
Component completion bonuses have been a matter of debate at this forum for quite some time. They provide more variety when hunting for your ideal Components and give you that thrill when you get the bonus you really want, but having not only several completion bonuses but also variation in the values on those bonuses presents many issues that we are now trying to resolve.
If we were to limit each Component to only one completion bonus, with no stat variation, then that opens up some great opportunities for us to improve the game. For example, with the up and coming Bounty System, we are running into the same problem we originally had with crafting from the inventory. If a Bounty asks you to deliver a Component, you have no choice of which one is taken out of your inventory. We believe that having Bounties ask for specific Components, instead of some one-time items only for quests, makes the world feel more cohesive (the people of Cairn actually want the same stuff you do) and allows many parts of the game to work together. That way items you are already gathering have even more purpose, instead of piling on quest-only loot.
If we do not go through with this change, then there will be less variety in the Bounties offered.
Ultimately, we feel that this should fall to the community to vote upon, as it is you guys who will be reaping the benefits, and downsides, of making any changes.
A run down of what removing Component completion bonus variation would do for the game:
PROS:
Crafting can return to its original design: automatically selecting the materials from your inventory AND your stash.
With only one completion bonus per Component, they will be able to stack, saving you copious amounts of storage space.
Since it will no longer matter which Component is taken from your inventory, this will open up new opportunities for quests and bounties
With a fixed completion bonus, we can ensure that the bonus is consistently desirable and fitting for each component type.
CONS:
With only one completion bonus per Component, there will be less possible options for what you apply to your equipment.
With removal of most completion bonuses, existing Components may lose their bonuses or the bonuses will change, meaning you may have to make revisions to your equipment.
Even though having components streamlined for crafting is tempting, as that would be an inventory miracle, I like all those random completion boni. I wouldn’t say no if a Standard Completion Bonus was implemented for completing a component inside an item (socketed).
If Kinree must toil anyway, I’d prefer a deposit-only bank for crafting, that accepts our components and keeps an inventory of them and feeds the blacksmith with the data. (Unlikely, I know)
I’m also on the fence, although I did vote for change. I believe that the pros do outweigh the cons.
I’d be more solidly in the change camp if all the components had more interesting completion bonuses… like the Attuned Lodestone. Not that all components need to have a skill as a completion bonus, just that they should have something more interesting than a few points of this or a few percent bonus to that.
I don’t feel like the first three pros are terribly substantial, and I can’t really sympathize with the last one at all. Inasmuch as I don’t feel cheated when any green drops if it isn’t some perfect double-green-affix monstrosity, I don’t feel cheated when I don’t get my desired completion bonus. The current state of bonuses add a lot to both character customization and a player’s ability to set and reach item collection goals. I’m very satisfied and have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of my component completion collection.
Why can’t the first pro be applied to recipes that don’t require anything but scrap already? I find that most crafts that use something other than scrap tend to be so niche in the first place that it’s rarely a struggle to keep track of where its ingredients are. Pure scrap crafting en masse is both the most tedious and the most in-need-of-work element of the current crafting process, and I don’t see why it couldn’t be improved without severely diminishing what I think is a very compelling element of character customization.
If storage space was a substantial concern, couldn’t we just have more tabs? I personally have a mildly large collection of valuable component completions and they fit within a single shared stash tab, which doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. You typically don’t need to keep components if they lack both a valuable completion bonus and relevant crafting potential. It just seems to me that if there’s a problem regarding item storage space, that problem should be fixed. Putting band-aids on symptoms of that problem-- like component storage-- isn’t a long-term solution. I’m not personally convinced that there’s a substantial storage problem, but that’s just me.
Are “turn in x component” quests or bounties something that actually meaningfully improves the game?
That’s a very good point. The bonuses we lose are known, what sort of bonuses would there be to replace these, otherwise it’s a bit of a guess in the dark I think.
I like the unique find aspect and the need to deconstruct to keep the specific component for use in the newly found armor, etc. I’m concerned that switching to non-unique completion bonuses will remove a level of management that I currently enjoy. As well, equipping the same components with varied buffs and protections has its attraction, as the component varieties are currently devised.
However, I do already have an overabundance of fragments and components with many duplicates so could go with the YES vote if the changes truly do add to the quality of adventuring.
In the end, I think component management is about creating unique armor and equipment, customizations by player. So whichever way the Devs go, some part of it needs to stay and game play should be enhanced by any change, not depreciated for convenience.
Changes can be scary, yet new experiences can be exciting --surprise me!
With the up and coming Bounty System, we are running into the same problem we originally had with crafting from the inventory. If a Bounty asks you to deliver a Component, you have no choice of which one is taken out of your inventory. We believe that having Bounties ask for specific Components, instead of some one-time items only for quests, makes the world feel more cohesive (the people of Cairn actually want the same stuff you do) and allows many parts of the game to work together. That way items you are already gathering have even more purpose, instead of piling on quest-only loot.
If we do not go through with this change, then there will be less variety in the Bounties offered.
Nothing ventured nothing gained… Yes and be dammed
Edit… Though I will admit to being half disappointed I don’t get the challenge of making a component bag mod… I’m also half relieved I don’t get…etc, etc
I voted for no, I like farming for the right bonus.
And what would be the point of all the clicking to complete components if the bonus is always the same anyway? With that change you should just get rid of the parts completely and drop completed components.
Add a box where you have to put your component in, like with crafting now?
I’m hoping the storage problem will be fixed by modders eventually
I like the current system, but with the bonus of completion at a fixed value. But with the randomness of current statistics classes. That provides more satisfaction when you get a bonus of completion which further increases the main statistical component, sorry my english.
I think I need more information before I can vote. Can you give an example (even theoretical) of a change to the component completion for a component that exists now? Say, Severed Claw? Will the completion be just +% Physical Damage? Or will it have several modifiers to counteract the complete loss of character customization?
Will there be some new additional components added to counteract the loss of options in customizing our characters?
Why are non-component crafting materials, like Bloods of Ct’thon or Ancient Hearts or Manticore Eyes or those numerous other things that are hanging out in my inventory, poor subjects for that sort of bounty?
That said, I don’t think I would find that sort of bounty compelling, since it would just give me an incentive to pick up and stash otherwise useless components during normal gameplay. This would render bounties that ask me to turn components in into nothing more than a series of text boxes. As a player, I essentially just wouldn’t have to do anything for those bounties, right?
Edit:
Sorry if my impression on the idea is a bit off, obviously we’re working with relatively incomplete information.
Revising the quest system just for Components does not make sense given the work and risk involved. In comparison, the completion bonus change has widespread benefits and requires no revision to a sensitive game system (for example, we don’t want to risk wiping player quest progress).
So with Severed Claw, the bonus would become something favorable to melee builds, such as % phys dmg, health or OA, maybe a combination of two stats.
If it proves that adding new Components is necessary, we would consider that option. We may also revise some existing Components that are considered unpopular, or make their completion bonuses more appealing.
Rare materials will be included in Bounties.
What Components do you consider useless? That’s a different issue altogether. Feel free to start a discussion on it.
Removing completion variety would make further hunt of components pointless once you gather large amount of one component. Lets say I have 50x Chipped Claw so I wouldn’t even bother picking it anymore because they’re all the same and it is no longer rewarding.
Although this can be solved by adding more various components to compensate this loss. For example to be able to craft much more powerful components from those basic ones or making component drop rate lower and increasing bonuses they give.
I’m saying yes for a change but only if that change makes component hunt more rewarding and interesting instead of making it look dull because completion variety pretty much the only thing that keeps it going now.
P.S Increase Kilrian’s Shattered Soul drop rate … Farmed max rep with Rovers in Arkovian undercity (close to ~100 runs) and only got one part of 4 so I figured crafting Torment relic is nearly impossible.
I mean, in the most obvious case, when there’s a essentially a ‘line’ of components, like chipped claw -> severed claw, once the higher tier is introduced the lower tier loses all of its value as a piece of equipment, and is thus only as relevant as its crafting recipes. chipped claw is fortunate to be part of a decent number of recipes, perhaps most relevantly severed claw’s, but other components are similarly out-valued and have less relevance to the crafting system.
Obviously, I can’t speak for everyone, but I’m already well past the point where I never intend pick up another searing ember or polished emerald again. If it turns out that I need a few for a specific recipe, I might aim to collect a couple, but am I wrong in thinking that it’s unusual for players to pick up every single component drop for the entire game? If bounties were an incentive to keep items I wouldn’t otherwise keep, that might substantially mitigate the storage-saving advantages of component redesign in the first place.
I’m personally absolutely in love with the current component system, perhaps save for the substantial deviation between rolls of the same bonus type, and while I’ve tried to rationalize the advantages of this proposal I think some of my reservations are fairly objectively valid.
Is it possible to have the completion bonus applied only when the component is added to the item?
That way they are standard while sitting in inventory, but still allow for the existing variety. Also, it’s a bit of a surprise as you don’t see the completion bonus until you attach it, then you can either live with it or pay to have it removed and attach a new one.
