Poll: Component Completion Bonuses

[Skyhaster]

Exactly… this change will effect the veteran players or the those who are trying to min max or make the best possible characters but it wont affect those who either just started the game or dont have any interest in min maxing.

I have characters that want to push for breaking pts in OA, DA, dmg, health, health regen, energy regen… Without component bonuses… All I will be doing is craft for the right affixes on rare items. I really doubt how many of those yes voters understand the magnitude and the complexity of the problem here.

And it may make people refuse from facing higher difficultys at some point because the right combination of stable bonuses from components and random ones can make your build more powerfull in your particular, personal style of buildconfiguration and gameplay.

[Cavar]

32 pages and still no real consensus, even though Yes is leading. Overall only 168 people have voted. I know more people are playing the game than that and certainly more bought it, but aren’t playing it until full release. The change will impact the latter group less than people who are currently accustomed to completion bonuses.

Anyways, based on those numbers, I say just change the components to fixed completion bonuses and be done with it.

1. Making them fixed will make other improvements to the game easier to develop.
2. Who knows, in the long run this may allow something even more awesome than components to be implemented.
3. See PROS in original post

[kiedeerk]

And what if … those random bonuses currently available on completed components could be awarded (randomly or selected by the player) as permanent resistances / stat / speed / damage boosts by completing any or some specific bounties ? There was some quest rewards like that in TQ after all …

We can think of a lot of different options and creative ideas but its not the question here. There wont be an 3rd option because that requires even more time for development and testing and such. Zantai also confirmed that many times in this thread. Many people who voted yes also think there will be a third option but its really crunch time for the devs as the game nears completion for launch.

[system]

personally i dont mind having random completition bonus…what annoys me way more is the random value on a random stat when completing the component.

i dont mind farming at all, played tons of games where i farmed for thousands of hours but farming the same component 1000 times just to get another 4 % physical instead of the possible 12 % for example is annoying.

i can totally live with farming until i get the physical dmg, but at least i would want the max value once i finally get the bonus i desire.

as i understand it tho in this thread thats not possible to do atm?

[Chameleon]

Component skills wouldn’t be going anywhere.

100+ Component Skills into 63 Components does not compute…unless I am missing something.

[Zantai]

100+ Component Skills into 63 Components does not compute…unless I am missing something.

Well, probably because there aren’t 100 Component skills, there are 42.

Also, there are 83 Components.

[Shalie]

100+ Component Skills into 63 Components does not compute…unless I am missing something.

The component skills aren’t part of the completion bonuses.
And there are only 49 component skills

[ibugsy]

Well, probably because there aren’t 100 Component skills, there are 42.

And there are only 49 component skills

Mmm…scratches head :undecided:

[Chameleon]

Lol Zantai edited his post too, wasnt 42 before.

I thought I saw somewhere about there being 100+ skills added to Components…hmmm maybe it was the number available on all items including weapons and armour.:undecided::o

[Zantai]

Lol Zantai edited his post too, wasnt 42 before.

I originally said “about 38”. Then I counted and it’s 42. Shalie is counting all the files in that directory, but some of them are 2 parts of the same skill (ex. Aura applies a buff and Buff values as 2 separate files).

[Shalie]

Well I didn’t really have time to check them so thoroughly, I’m not a game designer after all

[RxJunkie]

Even though I voted No last night after quite a bit of thought, I would change my answer to a definitive “Yes” if I could. Why? For these reasons:

1. It would reduce engineering/coding complexity for the character files/game files as the components (each piece and completed) no longer have a random seed that is listed for each individual item and when included in an item.

2. Bounty turn-in (for this specific type of bounty!) becomes an easy check to see if the item is in your inventory and stash, how many you have and then removes them if you meet the criteria. This works just like the Aether Crystal and Scrap turn-in quests.

3. Time could be spent on shoring up the newly created lack of certain favorable/useful bonuses (and they are just that, bonuses!) by adding multiple new components to the loot tables. Yes, this requires designer time/artist time/tester time, but would be easier than changing UI, etc. And yes, this means you will fill more inventory space as there are more components, but there will be an overall large-scale gain in free inventory space as you won’t have 10 or more of one type of component (and that’s just one component!). I personally have 3 filled characters with completed and not completed components that I collected a long time ago. I realized it was too bothersome, so I stopped. Have set bonuses and stacking components would eliminate the need to hoard like that (or to that extent!)

4. We don’t know what else can be added to the game in the time until release! We still do not know what kind of stats we can receive from augments and how that could offset the perceived loss of power from losing specific random component completion bonuses.

5. There will always be the veteran players looking to min-max to their heart’s content and will be vocal about any changes that will alter perception of superiority versus game content, but it is the casual players that will get fed up with stash problems, confused by too much complexity/randomization, ticked off by the sometimes stupid RNG that can screw you over, etc. For only $25.00 for the game, Crate needs more buy-in and that will come from getting more people to buy the game. More people buying the game = more money for Crate = more awesomeness in GD = multiple expansions???

I can probably list more, but I have work to do. Simply put, this enables Crate to make a much better game overall, so let’s just grin and bear the change. I have faith that Crate will make something even better. They have the proven track record during this Alpha and they haven’t failed us yet.

[terec]

Zantai
Crate Employee - Designer

If we were to limit each Component to only one completion bonus, with no stat variation, then that opens up some great opportunities for us to improve the game.---------i think this is the right answer :D.

[system]

If we do not go through with this change, then there will be less variety in the Bounties offered.

Bounties offered, but what about rewards. Forgive me if these questions have been answered.

What do the rewards for bounties look like?
Are bounties repeatable?
Can you choose between bounties to get a specific reward, such as an augment?
I see augments for rings, amulets, weapons, shields and off-hands, and they’re mostly for added damages. But what about protective augments for armors?
Couldn’t some or all of the lost random bonuses from components be reborn as bounty rewards in the form of new augments appliable to more gear?

There’s a saying “Robbing Peter to pay Paul”, this rarely works out, cuz Peter will have his revenge. But if you pay Peter back, all can be well.

I think since there is no option C, things can still be ok if the bounty system offered the same depth for character customization and thrill of the hunt that we have now. In the end it could be more fun and nobody would harbour resentment. We’ll almost nobody.

[Crazyfroggg]

Hello there everyone. Tbh, i haven’t even noticed that those components have random completion bonuses until i’ve read this pool, and i am lvl 37, first toon though. I guess i was too absorbed by the game itself.
As a new player, it is awesome even the fact that you get to find some pieces, that you can combine, and get something added to that. I mean, c’mon, how sick is this? I felt like when runecrafting in Diablo 2.
The devs are doing an amazing job, that’s why i voted “Yes”, because i know i wont be dissapointed with their decisions and future changes.
Keep on the good work, good luck all.

[Zoroch]

it makes very little difference to the first half (even medierra said so somewhere in this thread) and definitely does the opposite of the second half of your sentence

I assume this is the post you meant:

Probably not that much better. Really, its only worth considering as a way to kill three small birds with one stone - you know, assuming people think its worth doing.

While it probably won’t be that much of a difference to bounties they weren’t really the main reason for my vote. In the same post Medierra said this in response to a suggestion about epic/legendary components:

Who knows - would at least be more feasible with components getting condensed in the inventory. Right now I can’t imagine adding more.

These other posts explain further what I meant by the second part of my sentence:

To be clear, I’m the only one who doesn’t care either way. For others on the team, the completion bonuses are a headache that are making their jobs more difficult and preventing various aspects of the game from working as smoothly as they could. So they’re hoping to be able to make this change.

This is a topic that understandably generates a lot of bias, mainly due to the fact that people are mostly going to vote based on one specific factor: if they have the completion bonus they want already or not. Something which I feel sways their vote more so than any other positive/negative to the proposed change. With the current state of components, the completion bonus is largely what makes them a thing, but at the same time it creates a large number of far less valuable/useful components. Like, if you have Hallowed ground with +1 class skill to whatever class you play, there is no way you are going to choose something else. It’s objectively the best component for its slot by a huge margin and the potential +1 class bonus is just the icing on the cake for what makes it so good. However, completion bonuses are essentially what gives components their “depth” to begin with and are largely the reason why you would choose a specific component more than anything. This is a rather polarizing fact, where the diversity of components does not come from the components themselves but rather what random bonus happens to be attached to them. With all that said though, given the current state of the game, stripping away completion bonuses essentially kills off most of the depth to the system, because at least based on their current stats, BiS components will still be BiS. They will just lose the area that required player effort to achieve. Because of this I have to vote No, at least in the current state of components in Grim Dawn, where there are so few good ones to begin with.
However, I also think it is important to look at every change as an opportunity. Removing the completion bonus adds a lot of potential for how components can be redesigned, specifically the inclusion of new ones. With the current system, the completion bonus dictates their customization, but this honestly undermines the components themselves. If we were given a lot more choices for each slot, particularly with rare components, like for example, unique components could be designed around specific masteries, each providing a +1 class skill for their specific mastery and potentially offering a greater amount of synergy within that mastery, rather than everyone aiming for Hallowed Ground because it is simply the best component for its slot. Similar variety can be given to other gear slots, adding more and better combinations for offensive and defensive stats. That way, the choice truly starts to be based around what is the actual best component for your build rather than if the component has the right completion bonus. As it stands now, it seems a bit inevitable that completion bonuses will be removed in favor of convenience. But this does not mean that it also has to result in the loss of character customization, in fact it introduces the potential for far more, as long as Crate is willing to capitalize on it. When/if this change is implemented, I hope the devs will keep this in mind, because this truly is an opportunity to improve the component system at its core and add more layers of depth to customization and player choice.

These factors along with my own personal lack of interest in the mechanic is what made me vote yes.

[mamba]

100+ Component Skills into 63 Components does not compute…unless I am missing something.

It doesn’t, so the 100 must be wrong. Most components either have no skill at all, or it is fixed and not part of the bonus. I only am aware of one component with three different skills, depending on its completion bonus.

I assume the 100 includes skills from uniques, relics and item affixes

[MrTek]

In the same post Medierra said this in response to a suggestion about epic/legendary components:

I suggested the epic/legendary components and I hope they confirm it.
From what i’ve read, they don’t want to get developper involve into the change.
But I think adding component as epic/legendary wouldn’t need a programmer.

Zantai/medierra just say yes, I know you’re both burning to say yes.

[ibugsy]

It doesn’t, so the 100 must be wrong.

Indeed, it is.

I originally said “about 38”. Then I counted and it’s 42. Shalie is counting all the files in that directory, but some of them are 2 parts of the same skill (ex. Aura applies a buff and Buff values as 2 separate files).

[Zars]

This new road we are building cause us the woods.

Obviously, the developers don’t want to keep the woods, they’re getting in the way of making changes.

Are there anyway can we compensate the lost of these woods or keep the lost at minimum rate?

Because these woods are there the whole time and they deeply root with the community.

Just a food for thought.