I agree that variance is high and it’s hard to test a single change based on just a few trials. But this is not due to - as you say - lucky Oleron procs. In the space of 20 crucible waves little things like that tend to zero out. It’s more about mutators and boss combos (and also the number of unlucky episodes like aggro bugs, enemy heals and certain enemies stacking dmg mitigation buffs).
However, I disagree with the statement that nobody does 50 runs. Those guys do. Really.
Also, there’s nothing wrong with basing your feedback on personal experience especially when this experience includes thousands of hours in the game and dozens of top notch builds posted on these forums. After a while you develop that kinda feel that help you gauge a build just after a few runs instead of 50. Or even sometimes just by looking at the numbers.
I suggest you to watch a few videos when ppl clear crucible at 7- minutes. So-called “packs” die to collateral dmg of procs or devotions, the only interaction with them is pulling toward the centre of area during spawn to prevent the struck-bug.
That’s exactly what i’m saying. They are basing their feedback using their experience and feeling of the game. A lot of it is processed subconciously and you only have the end result as: this proc feels weak/strong. And that is totally viable feedback. But it cannot be supported by the time you managed to achieve in two runs that you did right now. It all comes down to whether you trust the feeleing of the tester or not.
EDIT:
Sorry, i can only reply with advice for you to do the same. Just watch the uploaded 20 min 3run video and start counting how many times he had to “interact” with weaker heroes and random mobs that didn’t die due to their map behavior or not enough procs to clear them from collateral faster to trigger the new wave faster.
Depends, in previous patches DW cold or pierce builds would achieve crazy Crucible times without much AoE procs for the trash packs. Of course there acid have the advantage. Staying in the middle will trigger both Abomination and Yugol procs. Physical for example can’t rely on offensive procs. Both Bull rush and Oleron are very tough to trigger, since main attack is bound to Assasin mark. Fist of Vire isn’t much better. Empyrion too can’t compare to something like meteor shower.
I feel like this is based on my little research into Oleron on Pierce builds that I have posted here so I will respond. Yes, you are absolutely right, mathematically speaking you need more runs to prove a point. However, from my experience just 2-3 runs is enough to gauge build’s power and consistency when you have a lot of hours of testing builds behind your back. And as I wrote there: Oleron setup didn’t feel like it had more damage or AOE. It felt more or less the same damage but much less consistent.
By the way, anyone who doubts my findings could check it for themselves, download link for save folders are there, few posts above.
To stay on topic, @Zantai, please consider looking at the amount of devotion activators physical builds have. Oleron’s “on crit” requirement makes much less viable choice. If one is to sacrifice good balanced stats because he/she had to pick up 20 purples on the way to Oleron, one should be compensated with a mighty proc that’s easy to activate. Please, consider changing Oleron to “on hit” activation.
This is also a sensitive area. If Oleron is changed to on hit with the regular chance of 15-20% (the norm for 1s cd devos) this will actually be worse than on 100% crit. At least for endgame builds with good oa, and especially in crucible. This chance would have to be a little inflated.
Oleron also COULD be a nice and desirable constellation for ranged builds based on physical damage if his prock will activated not around of our character, how it is works now, but, instead of this, on a impact place
As an engineer, it’s not. There’s no practical way of accurately gauging the strength of Oleron that is going to be statistically correct. It could take hundreds of runs per build variant that should all be tabulated, recorder and analyzed - by the time you’re done 2 hotfixes have already arrived that might have changed the stuff you’re testing based on others’ feedback. Practicality >> scientific accuracy unless it’s something that’s very critical like real-life situations that could kill people. There’s nothing of that in this game.
It’s a nerf for pierce builds that use Oleron, since they’re normally the only ones with OA that high. It’s a huge buff for Witchblade tho since both CoF/pox can’t proc oleron and Assassin’s mark but with that change it should be possible.
Yep. That is why I asked. It really should be able to be bound given how witchblade has garbage on crit options. Grasping vines and many other multi hit skill can be bound so why not pox? Seems very unfair.
OK, at least WB can proc 2 on crit devo with somewhat efficiency and AoE. The Blind fury thing makes sense since I can’t put grasping vines on it either. I think it seems only %WD skills can proc it or something.
It’s not efficient on WB - use Bloody Pox just for that.
Oathkeeper builds can use 2 “on-crit” devotions - one on Guardians of Empyreon, second - on main skill. Still, even those tend to avoid Oleron, cause it’s symply too weak and has too high requirements.
Also, there is a general problem, that certain (mostly physical) devotion procs cant be bound to certain skills - for example, Blind Fury, Maul, Bull’s Rush, etc cant be bound to CoF and similar spells…
Just to clarify: you can say that based on your 2-3 runs Oleron felt weak, and this would be practical, but including the time shown in these 2-3 runs as an argument is misleading.
Im glad devs are pushing to improve existing devotions. Oleron is really poor and going physical is best. Thanks for this thread.
Hopefully when balance is achieved (though impossible), and when rogue dungeons are all complete, hoping to see devs go and examine the skies further for pushing more potential constellations in the future. Sometimes its boring to see just a few choices in the end. and The devotion system has felt more narrow and restrictive over the years. The sky has so much more room for moar, so please consider adding few more options per tier if possible. There are still many animals and characters to be used to fill the space between the stars.
