I’m trying to keep up with all of this, but for all the arguing going on I can only see a fairly simple (and small in the grand scheme of things…) issue:
Rah’Zin was changed. No one except Crate seems to know why.
If it was explained somewhere can someone please quote it (medea? 
) so at least the arguments have context…
LoL when this thread became a temple of overreaction? What is the criteria that shows the game is in a good place or not? Yeah Rah’zin nerfs a bit undeserving and we get sometimes nerfs to our beloved builds but seriously what is the aim here? Are we expecting all builds thrive in Crucible and SR? As far as I know even the most meme idea can finish the campaign and such. There will always be some details to be improved or reworked for most of us yet we are not the developers, just gamers. Game is definitely in a better place comparing to when I started to play which is almost 2 years now.
I can point some weak builds, damage types, archetypes comparing to others and I can definitely complain about some other things but these doesn’t mean that the game is become unplayable so no need to be dramatic about it.
Even with the latest efforts, I can say DW lightning melee is still pretty weak. Other elemental damages also got weaker somehow. I mean Grava is still a bitch even with 2x Sanctified Bone with those builds.
Rah’zin set has mediocre damage, no AoE and very low life so some complains here deserve to be credited.
I don’t know about caster skills much but I don’t see anyone plays AAR anymore, suspecting the nerfs was hard.
Some classes are still lack different build options. Like Commando, Templar, Elementalist. We’ve been asking for Acid Blademaster support for a while and not getting, instead we got Acid Reaper but it’s not even competitive.
But still, game got improved and expanded by a lot since FG. We have more build options, more gears, more support for meme ideas. I guess we are just a bit greedy and perfectionist. I mean when I first started, no one was focusing WPS more than one point, WPS now become very useful. Conevrted physical bypass armor was a weird feature and most people were unaware such meaningless detail now it become fixed and game become more logical. Aggro fix was a great change. CR times are getting faster and faster. SR become more reliable etc. Anyway sorry for the wall of text. I think the game balance can be still improved but having deficits doesn’t mean the game become shit.
Please no…
Like seriously.
Amen 
Kinda says it all.
1.1.9.x changes enabled so many new builds or brought them to a good place from nonexistence. I hope this continues till GD2.
I admit to be biased towards build opportunities / creating new stuff vs well established builds though.
Balance in GD is in very good place in my opinions with lots and lots builds that can be competitive.
The only problem is just lack of motivation to even farm for Rahzin set right now.
Of course the nerf which happened will not brake all of the builds that are using it - it will just make them worse and slower. And why that happened I do not know.
Crate or Zantai doesn’t owe us explanation but it is the first nerf for me which just came out of nowhere. Before that patch I hoped for buffs for Rahzin. Now I would just love that the change could be reversed.
Holy damn, NO!
Admittedly: If I, who never balanced a game, were to balance one via patches, it would look like this:
With x(t) being the buff/nerf-funcion ofc.
For some reason CRATE decided to do it this way:
Now while this leads to much more outcry and less understanding community-wise, the side effect is, that it keeps the game ALIVE for a much longer time!
If GD was patched like the 1st graph, you´d have played every possible build after some years. Finished. “Dead”, some would call it.
But with Graph #2, there is ALWAYS something new to come:
Crate’s … “over-the-top” approach when it comes to patching is THE key in keeping the game alive for so many more years than I´ve ever thought.
Keep going crate! Cheers is good, rant is good! If noone has an opinion anymore, the game starts becoming history.
Ah, and happy new year!
Not quite sure how the man, the myth, the legend, the renowned username1 got us to this point but no, the Rah’Zin changes, while obviously not an encouraging sight, are no reason to throw a tantrum over the state of the game as a whole. I mean, hell, we just got a whole slew of brand new conduits that nobody could have possibly expected at this point. Given the age of the game and its business model (when is the last time Crate milked any of us on microtransactions? oh wait, never), it’s astounding that Crate/Zantai is dedicating this much attention to GD still. If this is some devilish ploy to build up unreasonable amounts of consumer goodwill so that we now buy all Crate products for the next 20 years, it’s working.
So keep things in perspective. Yeah, Rah’Zin got nerfed and many feel it’s unmerited. I can’t contribute much to that, my experience with the set is one build that was kinda set up to fail from the start, so no wonder ToC couldn’t carry it. Looking at it generally from what people have posted and what builds have been trending, it certainly doesn’t feel like Rah’Zin was anywhere in the nerf-worthy territory, but then again, I thought the same thing about regen the patch before and was pretty wrong.
Graphs to describe the pursuit of balance? Where have I seen this before?
Oh, right.
Yep. Nice ones, too
Google vs. Origin.
You all, Zantai included, should be reported for off-topic btw.
It’s funny how such concrete and niche topics get spun into major balance discussions with merry shit throwing, while the OP has nothing to do with that contents (and yet has to take the blame, i presume?)
In this case off-topic is more understandable because the original statement is pretty obvious: Rah’zin nerf was a miss. There was no attempts at counter-argument, not a single word on the explanation. We all make mistakes, especially when we are under time pressure and loaded with more important tasks, what’s the big deal? Correct the miss and move along.
For the record, imo you have to be either trolling or blind to say that balance is becomming worse. The game has fixed building mechanics but the tools of building are constantly expanding through buffs, reworks and mod/conversion additions which naturally creates more imbalance that has to be tailored. In terms of the graphs, the curve of balance can be perceived as a sinusoid because the high-low difference does not decrease as a value all that much. But the scale and the density of the field are much higher, you have to keep in mind the big picture.
Looking back at this thread again, part of me is surprised it wasn’t locked and laid to rest last week. If anything, it might be best soon as nothing more of note really needs to be said from either side.
Like banana said above - he made a point about Rah’Zin and the recent changes to it, eventually a proper case with video evidence regarding Rah’Zin Witch Hunter and a collection of other Chaos melee/ranged characters was pulled out and realistically, feedback on the topic should have ended there and then.
Regarding “why” Rah’Zin was nerfed. No idea and I’m of the opinion that a strict/explicit explanation shouldn’t be given, for any balance change. Crate has their vision of the game, we have ours, all we can do whenever there’s a disagreement is make a case disputing it, preferably with evidence playing or testing said changes (which was done here I’ll add) and it’s up to them whether they agree and make changes or whether there’s a difference in opinion between both sides and not much changes - no more, no less, simple. That’s how it’s been for years now.
Man, I am way too tired/sleepy from New Year’s dinner to respond to all of this hilarious drama, but a few things that stuck out to me-
nice casual sexism there, lol. Boomer identified 
I genuinely feel bad if that’s your experience with relationships.
As to the claim that this is the “funeral” of Grim Dawn and there is no balance and whatever nonsense people are spewing… well, I’ll just echo some others above in agreement. I’ll also add that I started making and posting builds for the very first time in 1.1.9.2 (even though I’ve been a more on-and-off, casual player for years) because of the myriad build possibilities that were opened up by balance changes. Suddenly, I saw the chance to start creating builds that people hadn’t done before, and I’m sure I’m not alone there. It was actually a pretty great feeling.
Sure, Crate may make some rather incomprehensible balance decisions sometimes (like in 1.1.9.4, I’m not going to lie). Sometimes, they seem a bit “out of touch.” But on the whole, I’d say that due to their dedication to still balancing the game even so many years after release, Grim Dawn is more of a jewel of a game than ever before.
Otherwise, I would have dropped and forgotten the game many years ago, before the first expansion was ever released. And that’s a fact.
I don’t see the irony in saying the game doesn’t really need more attention because it’s in a “quite” good place. Would you prefer instead that I listed all the tiny things I don’t like to fully qualify the comment like how thermite mines still suck ass so long after the resistance overhaul but instead we change non-issues that weren’t on the radar for literally years?
If you think 15,000 bits per skill point is a fair time investment then by all means keep making changes until 2050.
do you even realize how many times you need to respec to reach that point?
and yes it’s like a drop in a bucket at that time when you get like 4-600k for 10min SR farm/2shards
if you find the price so abhorrent, or respec so ridiculously much you reach the respec price cap constantly, consider making more alt chars, sound like it would be quicker and better serve your time…
Oh boy, I wonder what will you say when you spend like 7kk to craft good stoneplate greaves or smth
Exactly what I was thinking when reading this. 
Uhhhhh no?!
With decend casting speed on any demo (which isnt hard to archive) they are placed fast, deal moderate damage (or even fairly good dmg if invested into them) and ontop have massive elemental RR = very versatile.
Care to explain to me how that is bad in ur book?
Seriously curious now.
Last patch!? I say do it but allow for one last request thread. Minus a few personal gripes, things are in a good place.
You mean the skill that got nerfed after its last mechanical change because it made a little too good? That usually doesn’t happen with skills that “suck ass”.
Now if it sucks now that’s an entirely different matter, but saying it “still sucks ass” means it never stopped doing that when that’s wrong.