Resistance works before block and armor?

Grim Dawn Gameplay Discussion
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Fumble, Dodge and Projectile Deflection
Chance to hit via Offensive Ability vs. Defensive Ability
Shield
% Reduced Damage from Monster Types
Armor
Resistances
Reduced Damage from Monster Types
% Damage Absorption
Damage Absorption

This order of defense is in combat guide for years and I always regard combat guide as “the Bible” for my builds. Until today, I accidentally saw a test article and the result is “resistance is always calculated first”.

Is this the truth? If so, I would be shocked to see this “order of defense” thing lies there for YEARS and no developer cares about it… (Sorry for irrational wording)
If so, it would be great to see combat guide stays accurate and continue serving as the most invaluable resource accompanying all GD lovers all the way…

Thanks…

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Care to give a link to that test article in question?

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If that test article was correct, you would be invincible. A 20k incoming hit would be reduced to absolute zero on an average char with 80% res, 3k armor, shield, 10% damage absorption and 400 flat absorption from obelisk. In fact, you wouldn’t even need obelisk, your incoming damage after armor check would be minus 300, less than zero.

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Just want to point out on your comment that Physical resistance is fairly rare and can be difficult to amass for most characters. Very few will have 80% physical resistance and even then they won’t have it permanently (usually through temporary procs like Ghoulish Hunger or Serenity).

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3bugs.zip (1.4 MB)

The testing article by “eszvgy” was published in https://tieba.baidu.com/f?kw=恐怖黎明&ie=utf-8&tab=good (citation from baidu darktemplar bar of Chinese community) before 2018, but due to “system upgrade”(lol, maybe some dev del db and run) , all posts before 2018 were lost. Luckily, this one has a copy. Since it’s not in English, I will try to translate the third part of it, which tested around the issue.

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He boosts physical resistance to 84%, armor avg 2000 considering buff, armor absoprtion 100%. Testing targets are some big physical damage dealers including" Benn’Jahr, the Colossal" and “Moosilauke, the Chillwind”. In order to keep test clean he makes ice/lightning res to 100%.

If official “order of defense” holds true, the armor value is not high enough to absorb that high phys damage, then the remaining damage passes armor defense will be further mitigated by physical resistance. At last the role should still take some damage.

If resistance calculated first, 84% physical resistance would make the damage so little that it is less than the armor value with 100% armor absorption. The role will take 0 damage.

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In real case, Moosilauke is further buffed by fevered-raged bloody pox and the role still takes 0 damage.

Block is tested in a similar method and the result is still “resistance works first”.

The article also tested two “bugs” including “In a single hit, all sources of physical damage are mitigated by armor respectively” and a related bug “element to phy conversion has no armor check”. If anyone interested, let me know and I would translate more.

Hope the test is clear enough. If this is confirmed, all I ask is to please kindly update https://www.grimdawn.com/guide/gameplay/combat/ asap. Better late than never… thanks

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Instead of presuming that the order of defense is “lies” and that “no developer cares”, how about we try to be more neutral about this and say that it’s a mistake that’s been overlooked (if true). GD uses mechanics that are inherited from the Titan Quest engine, so there is a chance that the order of operations for some mechanics (like damage mitigation and damage conversion) might have some kinks in them. Just not long ago, a bug was found regarding the order of damage conversion for elemental damage types (and it was fixed the very next patch, to my knowledge).

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Gotta say I agree here. His usage of English indicates he has a decent grasp of the language, leading me to assume that he well knew the words he was choosing to employ - which in this case, sadly, appears to indicate a person with a highly irrational thought process.

Rather than assuming “they don’t care”, if you are aware of a bug the natural thing to do would be to report it:
https://forums.crateentertainment.com/c/grimdawn/bug-reporting

…so that it can be looked into and rectified if it proves to be true.

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Already flagged for Zantai’s attention.

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Maybe, THAT was reason you nerfed block into the junk-tier? Cause, you know, with THAT mechanics, 100% block + recovery would indeed make an OP invincible build…
But if that gets fixed, consider about cancelling some block nerfs as well, please.

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You realize Medea isn’t a dev? She didn’t nerf anything :laughing:

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Be very VERY glad I’m not. I know nothing about game mechanics! :rofl:

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Everyone knows Medea is Medierra, Medierra_fleecestealer

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“so who is this Madieerafleecestealer? are u a dev?”

:rofl:

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Hmmm. This will prove interesting. We always make so many assumptions. On a monster, since the player has access to very high RR, you’d likely never notice an impact to this order. But for a player’s defense, this would be significant. (monsters don’t get crazy amounts of RR)

So my limited tests could also be misleading. Someone should test this further.

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“You” = “Crate entertainment” in general.

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She’s still not affiliated with Crate in any way, shape, or form, so I’m still very confused.

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jiaco, eisprinzessin and I are all volunteer moderators here and are not Crate employees. Just fans of the game like you all are.

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Sorry about that. Just changed wording.
Was irritated to see the guide which was read over and over in past several years to have that sort of fundamental bug… Anyways, no excuse, my apology :hushed:

21

Not a bug. Game Guide is correct.

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The order of defense in the game guide is correct.