Might be interpretation indeed - if Dreeg/Draelus is concerned about Yugol that would be only because he knows the Stars is what keeps him away from Cairn and only Primordials seem to have the power to create a new one.
He knows that shafting Korvaak who seems to be the only left Primordial on Cairn - for the time being there is no entity to keep the lights on so to say. Might be his schemes involve other alternatives/players in the future - since the world has like several centuries until the sun dies without celestial intervention?
My impression was that the Witch Gods are nowhere near as powerful as you’re otherwise led to believe. In the Conclave of the Three, in the hidden room where the 1st sacred crate is, there’s a note detailing how Bysmiel has to rely on simple spies for her information.
When Kymon discovered Korvaak and revitalized him through his pact, it seems like the Witch Gods immediately started to lose control over the Eldritch realm. With their power waning, Dreeg’s followers were overwhelmed with the truth, visions of Ch’thon’s return, which led to their temple being annihilated when they couldn’t reestablish communication with Dreeg.
The quest involving Inarah drops more hints:
“They come, from all sides, and within. We are doomed, all of us doomed.”
“The Great Eye is blind to the calamity of blood. Founts of blood and the dead lips that drink their fill.”
Furthermore, when you banish Ishtal and speak to the various seers around the Conclave, they all express concern over how reliable Dreeg’s gifts really are.
The overall feeling I had was they siphon their power from Korvaak and the Eldritch realm, but none of that power is actually manifested by them. It’s simply borrowed or stolen from other sources.
My revised lore theory:
The primordial gods are all dead or dying, minus Korvaak, whom escaped the celestial war but was badly wounded. His original realm was the Shattered Realm, which he abandoned to Yugol when the people there refused to worship him in his weakened state, damning them to nonexistence.
I’m assuming the gods are dead or dying because of their complete absence on Cairn. The Arkovians prayed to Rattosh to alleviate Uroboruuk’s curse but nothing happened. Rattosh was also responsible for ensuring no evil would pass beyond the veil but that is clearly commonplace on Cairn.
Korvaak usurped Cairn in Empyrion’s absence but was subdued by the Witch Gods, whom then proceeded to erase all knowledge of him from existence, supplanting themselves as idols of worship in place of him to keep him weakened. The Witch Gods drew their power from him. However, they’re far from infallible, and weren’t thorough enough. With the events of the Grim Dawn, Korvaak regains power with worship from Kymon and his followers, disrupting the powers of the Three.
With no other choice, they’re forced to destroy Korvaak, but Dreeg recognizes that in doing so, Cairn will suffer the same fate as the Shattered Realm, so the Three attempt to amass as many relics as they can to break the seal to the Tomb of the Heretic, and through Bysmiel’s manipulation and Solael’s enforcers, concealed via Rigg’s machinations, convince the Taken to obtain the Iris, so that they can somehow use it to stop or slow Yugol.
Regardless, the fact that the Aetherials, Ravager, Mogdrogen and Korvaak himself see Ch’thon as the real threat is kind of telling of who the ultimate bad guy is. Yugol is a threat but Ch’thon is a much worse one.
If Dreeg were truly the all-seeing eye like his followers seem to believe, I think things would be quite a bit different. I’m inclined to think there’s a limit to how much he can actually see. The fact that Korvaak, even in his weakened state, is able to so easily disrupt the visions of his followers demonstrates that Dreeg’s actual power is questionable, even if many of the visions Korvaak instills turn out to be false due to the actions of the Taken (which is another, whole big thing entirely).
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Well the Witch Gods are powerful, but they weren’t the most powerful gods before defeating Korvaak. After al they managed to imprison Korvaak, a primordial god and yes he was severely weakened but still. I believe that the gods used to live by certain rules and still do. If you talked to Mogdrogen avatar in Ugdenbog after defeating Korvaak he said:
Now the Witch Gods don’t need to use power to keep Korvaak imprisoned, since he is defeated and gone from the Eldritch Realm.
I don’t think the Witch Gods lost control over the Eldritch Realm. Korvaak was imprisoned there and by having more Kymon followers, he managed to regain some strength. He probably used some power to tab into the power of the Eldritch Realm.
This is said about the Eldritch realm by the Witch Gods attendant:
And part from the lore note - The gift of the Gods:
That’s how they were able to imprison Korvaak and ascend to Gods.
The Temple of the Three was severely damage due Ugdar. From a conversation with the attendant:
Regarding Inarah she was under the control of Ishtal, the Mind Reaper. Getting false visions and also effecting other seers in the camp.
Yugol is certainly a threat but as Zantai said, it has no purpose, no goal. While Ch’thon is always a threat and not only to mortals but to every god. It’s a matter of priorities and the biggest threat to the Witch Gods was Korvaak. Now that he’s out of the way, they can turn their attention to something else.
It’s well established in-game they are not gods at all. The lore item dropped by Korvaak illustrates them as usurpers of his realm, drawing their power from it, and using displays of that power to convert people to believe in them as gods. Their ultimate goal was making people forget Korvaak existed at all to keep him in his weakened state. Dreeg, at best, seems like he may be at an ascendant level, but Bysmiel and Solael are just mere humans (albeit powerful ones). I suspect the only reason Bysmiel and Solael haven’t died off due to old age is because they hide in the eldritch realm and time flows much differently there.
It’s also fairly well established that the actual gods (and demi-gods) gain power from worship, hence why the Cult of Ch’thon has gone to such lengths to desecrate Mogdrogen’s shrine. The Rovers have always had faith in him, so his power has consistently been fairly strong. Likewise, a lore note in Barrowholm provides further evidence of that (this time in favor of Ravager):
In these trying times, I often find myself in prayer. My mind fills with questions for which there cannot be answers; or, if there are, could we truly be meant to know them?
The gods work in mysterious ways. Our patron gives and takes, but I believe he is generous to those who follow without question. I now understand the necessities of our existence, that our choices have consequences and that we must bow our heads in reverence for all that we had been given.
We can never forget that without Him, we would be as nothing. Our homes would be consumed by the waters of the bog and our people devoured by the wendigos that had succumbed to madness. From them, we must take example; for disobedience breeds death, and we must remain resolute in our commitment.
My impression of Ugdar’s fate is that it was similar to that of the original members of the Coven. It does not require god-like powers to tap into or reach the eldritch realm, but the Three don’t want anyone challenging them or potentially causing issues by seeing through their lies, so they just destroy them (and in the case of the Coven, as an added bonus they set an example by instilling fear, so none would attempt to do it again).
Technically, yes. However, it was an agent of Korvaak, and like Kymon and his followers, they were being empowered well beyond normal levels by Korvaak.
Is Yugol a threat to the gods? I never had that impression. It only seemed like a threat to creation itself. The Dying God’s description makes it sound like Yugol (the nothingness outside of creation) can’t destroy Ch’thon. I don’t recall anything else referencing Yugol being a threat other than its description and the lore note from Dreeg’s camp.
My original idea was that Yugol was the one ultimately responsible for the depravity of the void and Ch’thon’s madness, but Zantai said they weren’t at all affiliated.
From May last year.
That doesn’t answer if it is a threat to the gods though (or at least to Ch’thon). 
Well Yugol is a threat but not in a way that it can eliminate a god,at least not a primordial. Just read Yugol’s constellation.:
There are gods in many ways primordial, ascendants etc. Just a being that is worshipped by its followers. There is afaik no clear definition on what it takes to be a god. Yes all the Witch Gods were mortal once and stole powers to ascend. That’s why Mogdrogen etc calls them false gods.
Right, which is what I wrote. I don’t think it is a threat to the primordial gods, only to creation.
I’m not sure if the distinction is ever plainly stated but there is a difference between them, or at least it seemed like to me. The primordial gods are beings like Korvaak or Empyrion, which are responsible for creation (along with their servants, the Aetherials). Mogdrogen, Ravager and Lokarr are demi-gods, which seem to be stewards of different aspects of creation. Ascendants, like Ulgrim, Horran and Rhowan, are humans which gained favor with the gods through various means. Finally, there are humans which are simply powerful, usually by drawing their power from some source through nefarious means, like Uroboruuk, Bysmiel and Solael.
Ascendants may be revered, to such lengths people may even pay them tribute or treat them with the utmost respect (borderline idolatry), but I don’t think they’re necessarily worshiped, nor do I think they require or even always want it.
Hey, Zantai… is too much spoily to ask for a concrete timeline of events? not only of the game (im still quite confused about when the Korvan crisis happend, given the free access we have to the dlc), but of the entire “universe” (at least in cairn).
There are thing we know happend, and some even how happend, so it would be nice to be given a somewhat organized order of events, i think it would clarify many doubs. I think the most important events are the fall of Arkovia, the War of the Gods, the sealing of Korvaak (and subsequent apotheosys of the Three), the first summoning of Loghorrean and the fight between Mogdrogen and the Ravager.
Im asking this because, as i pointed out earlier, many things don’t add up, most notably, the absence of the gods. The lore we have is quite contradictory with itself, because at times seems they were VERY active, and then NOBODY (gods or humans) gave a shit, all at once. I mean, Either Korvaak fell when Arkovia was in its prime and arkovians didn’t care about the fallen god (or gods in general, there is no recolection of arkovians missing their gods except when the curse stroke them), since we have no recolection of that, neither in notes nor costellations/items, or Arkovia appeared much later, and War of the gods happend AFTER the Three became gods, in wich case Korvaak was weak for doing his crossfit routine.
The alternative is Korvaak fell way before Arkovia even existed, but that would made no sense whatsoever, because the arkovian gods were already silent when it fell, so the arkovian ppl woulded have pulled their gods out their asses, since none of them woulded responded EVER.
The concensus seems to be that all gods went silent all at once (except for korvaak and Mogdrogen). BECAUSE of the War of the gods, and that also was the reason of Korvaak’s weakness. So, maybe the War started exactly when Arkovia got cursed, wich would explain why nobody gave a crap about it. However, we know that CAN’T be the case, because it’s stated that Mogdrogen was created DURING the war of the gods, and it was him who warned Rhowan.
And Last… who the hell whorship Ultos??? There are no arkovian lefts, only Rhowari, and no one mentions him. So, we take that Rhowari are still considered arkovians and, either Ulthos is still active (why would he be worshiped otherwise?) or Mogdrogen and Ulthos are one and the same (wich people in this forum doesn’t seem to agree). Something is off… well, everything is off in this regard.
The god were silent because of a happening in the War of the Gods.
Most humans had no knowledge of the War of the Gods. Neither about other gods just the ones they worshiped. The downfall of the Arkovian empire happened after the War of the Gods. They still prayed to the gods, but they pleas were not answered.
Korvaak was weakened due fighting in the War of the Gods. Dreeg who was punished centuries before the War of the Gods, or in because we don’t know how long that war lasted. That was done by Korvaak and thus Dreeg had to stand guard to keep other mortals from trying to enter the Eldritch realm like he did.
Because Korvaak was weakened, Dreeg with the help of Bysmiel and Solael, managed to imprison Korvaak and Ascend using powers from the Eldritch realm.
Probably the first time the Loghorrean was summoned was around 300 years ago, according to Creed and Ulgrim.
Ultos is also worshiped by Shamans and there is certainly a connection between him, Arkovia and Mogdrogen.
The lore is pretty clear with the timeline to which event took place first. We don’t know which gods,ascends, celestial beings etc. is still present.
But why? Ultos is an arkovian god, and shamans are ,essentialy, northern barbarians. I was almost certain shamans were a sub-group of “violent Rhowari” (like the ones guarding the secret vendor in the Blood Grove), but after reading their official wiki, it doesn’t make sense. Why would the northern tribes worship an arkovian god? Moreover, Vire, another arkovian god, is also worshiped by oathkeepers (who, by their description, follow either the Three, or Menhir). So, either the constellation description got outdated, is an unreliable resource (and that would open the door for the Mogdrogen=Ultos theory even further), the class descrition are unreliable, or all of the above.
No, is not. If we assume that Korvaak’s fall marked the end of the War of the Gods, then we have a problem. Either Arkovia existed alongside the Korvan empire, or did after it (not before, clearly, because of Mogdrogen and what Urobrook says in his notes about Korvaak). If they coexisted, the fall of Korvaak simply COULDN’T go unnoticed. The guy made a real tantrum in his way out, like a cataclysmic “Pompey”, tantrum. I doubt such event would be so easily forgotten, no matter how powerfull the Three might be, because clearly there was people able to match them (most notably, Urobrook, and he didn’t remember the event, not even recognized the luring presence).
If Arkovia existed after the Korvan Empire, then the arkovian gods never justified their existence, i mean, from the arkovian perspective, they were silent from the get go! (remember, Korvaak stated gods got killed, crazy, or disbanded when he fell, so, no arkovian gods coming to Cairn after that).
And a third problem… The Erulan Empyre. They didn’t worshiped arkovian gods, but (apparently), Empyreon, Menhir, and other non-eldritch/chaotic gods (targo, oleron, etc). Why? If Korvaak fell before the arkovian empire, Empyreon was long-gone, why would he be worshiped? (same for everyone else). If Korvaak fell DURING the arkovian empire… then it shared territory with the Erulan empire (there are arkovian ruins near Burrwitch). On top of that, while Korvaak was “forgotten” (despite his big ass Shrine in the Blood Grove, edit: and the super secret tomb of Korvaak, disguissed as… Tomb of Korvaak), Ulzuin wasn’t, to the point of being the “super-duper sugar-daddy” of an official branch of the Erulan army, the Demolitionist, and Ulzuin WAS KORVAN.
With the Oathkeeper class, it’s not that they are only for the Witch Gods and Vire. That is just a example, so a Oathkeeper could be for any god.
This is from the class description:
Arkovia was around the same time as the Korvan society. Mogdrogen talked to king Rowan because the pantheon of Arkovian gods, was no longer present to protect them. This due the War of the Gods.
The Korvan lands were not that close to the Arkovian lands. Most people of the Korvan lands perished.
The Erulan empire was very small during that period.
I like this take on the lore. I believe its been discussed before that the WG are not as powerful as they seem (why use the player to do their bidding in the first place) but you’ve laid it out in a clear manner.
This isn’t that contradictory. Even if Mogdrogen was created and participated during the war of the gods, he can still take the time to warn the Rhowari. During the times you talk to him, he does say it takes no effort for him to make avatars in Cairn.
Its actually a popular theory that they are both the same. Lets pretend the war of the gods spanned several centuries. Ultos/Mogdrogen is said be the youngest of the Arkovian gods. He might have been created during the start of the war and had plenty of time over the years to be established as a member of the Arkovian pantheon alongside the older gods.
When he saw that things were not going to go well for the Arkovians (due to culture corruption), he disguised himself as a new deity, Mogdrogen, and warned King Rhowan. Its why the worship of Ultos still exists because Moggy is Ultos with a different identity.
i do believe that either Ulthos created Mogdrogen and he keeps cheering up his daddy, or Ulthos effectively entered the protected witness program, wich would allow us to extend that assumption to other VERY similar cases (aka, Menhir/Vire, Ulo/Ishtak, Azrakaa/Aeon). HOWEVER, given how much intel we got from FG, im starting to believe that all gods are indeed a separate entity on their own, and the overlap is a result of the pantheons (like Zeus with Odin and Thor). So far i can recognize the Arkovian pantheon, the Korvan(?) pantheon, the Three, and “everyone else” (like chthon and the abomination). This would explain the relationship between Empyreon and Korvaak, and why some gods endured and others lost their worshipers.
Apparently we are missing, a 3rd pantheon (the “winning” side of the war), so i expect another big DLC where Crate will expand the lore.
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Except there are no more DLCs. Maybe in a sequel.
This actually makes sense that he is doing that. Because the Erulan empire was trying to stop the cult of the Witch Gods etc. And before the Grim Dawn the Erulan empire was grown into a massive empire.
An unimportant conversation amongst praets drew attention back to Grim Misadventure 106, previewing Port Valbury:
In re-reading this older post, I stumbled on a curious little detail with respect to Aldritch:
This seems to imply many things that are against assumptions I had made in the game, both specific to Valbury and in general. For one thing, by this wording ‘Aldritch’ is the name of the Aetherial that took over the human ‘Councilor Van Aldritch’. I’m curious whether that’s a coincidence or whether, perhaps, the Aetherial named himself after his human host some time after taking hold of him. Thinking on it more, that’s probably more likely.
Secondly, the ‘shed its human form’ line makes me realize that Reanimators - or at the very least, the archetype of Overlord Van Aldritch - are not fleshwarped humans as I had long imagined them to be. Edit: I guess I could have begun to suspect such a thing given the existence of the Fleshworks, even if not all Reanimators come from there.
On a related note, I’ve also begun to wonder about Aldritch’s scepter. Is that…kinda-sorta…him? Or it, rather. The weapon does produce ‘whispers’ that our character is unable to understand (see the lore text for the epic version of the item: https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/7194) (the legendary has different text) which are all but explicitly in the Aetherial tongue.
It makes me wonder whether any of our other foes might be lurking, trapped or otherwise, in some of our weapons or armor…
May be Aldritch’s scepter is a communication device, and other side ? Maybe high lords of ether in etherworld ( I could not remember the name …eatherhold or something…)
That may be true my friend, check the description of Outcast’s helmet: “You can’t help but feel as if the mask is staring back at you” Maybe aetherials can possess items too.
Decree of the Circle of Five: “Their will, their voice, their command…” It may not be a metaphor, it’s literally them talking through the dagger, something like walkie-talkie. It reminds me of LoL’s Darkins who were trapped in weapons as an eternal punishment, but they learned to possess anyone who uses them and take control over them.
It’s almost as if there is another similar scepter in a far off place. 
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