SPOILER ALERT: Lore Discussion

klasperstanze had concluded the closest truth we players know about the 3’s identities (dreeg is draellus. bysmiel is byscilla. solael is sagon). and the 3 witch gods can also possess one of their cultists for their own agendas (even the occultist’s solael aligned skill ‘possession’ support this).

as for the evil nature of most gods in grim dawn… i suspect its just the direction that crate wants to go (grimdark world). though some of them can be benevolent to lesser beings from time to time.

  1. dreeg is a high ranked human priest of some pantheon in korvan age. he got too close in unravelling the secret of the eldritch realm, and saw korvaak being weakened by the war of the gods. korvaak punished him to become his eldritch overseer that guards the eldritch realm from intruder. but he also bless dreeg with almost omnipotent seersights. dreeg, terrified of what korvaak plans to do with humanities for endless war against the chthonians, hatch secret plan with foreign sorcerer solael and priestess bysmiel to steal korvaak’s throne and ascend themselves to become 3 witch gods that leads humanities from the shadows for the survival of humankind (and +benefits to the 3)

2.ravager bless the cannibals of of barrowholm to protect them from ugdenbog’s dangers. but he is also the one that spreads the wendigo cannibal curse. not a benevolent being he is. he just want more cultists to get more power to strike back at mogdrogen for stealing his beastly domain while also preparing for war against the chthonians.

3.mogdrogen is more benevolent than many supreme beings of grim dawn. he wants ascetic and disarmed cultists to support his preference of wilderness over civilizations. but he also seems to be warlike if he needs to be (since he steals ravager’s domain in the past), which is the path he seems to consider in future grim dawn events post AoM, FG, & morgoneth’s beacon of the night. he considers the 3 witch gods to be capricious. and based on conversation with his avatar in ugdenbog, he seems to be preparing his followers for war after the banishment of korvaak and return of the 3 witch gods. he’s a decent supreme being imo.

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Is there confirmation that leaders are Gods? Draellus (I helped him) isn’t like Dreeg at all, he’s just human. And he seems to be concerned about Lightless thing in the void, while Gods would have no problem with it (because Gods can just repel it, it only devours a world without Gods). And if he’s Dreeg and actual God, why didn’t he participate in final fight with Korvaak?

Ravager is the source of curse? And people on Barrowholm are cannibals? The village looks really nice.

Ravager is an arrogant Primal being, he embodies the Wendigo spirit of insatiable hunger within all living beings. He’s certainly not a ‘good’ celestial, even if he helps humanity (with very questionable means such as cannibalism) he only does it for power and his own ends. He needed humans to become a corporeal form again.

Edit: spellcheck is a bitch

I assume you still miss out on some Barrowholm quests ^^

when grim dawn happened, the 3 lost a lot of their powers due to many humans being killed (grim dawn gods need human worshippers to gain powers). they don’t lost as much followers compared to the massacres in major cities due to how hidden their cults are, but they still suffered a lot too. then in their hidden path covenant temple, some dreeg cultist accidentally summoned lots of eldritch monstrosities that ravage the temple just because the cultist desperately want connection to dreeg.

then kymon’s chosen cult gain huge following after grim dawn. the huge influx of worshippers means korvaak gains much more strength to break out of his prison, which also means the 3 used more of their powers to focus in containing him, and so they become absent from the physical world of cairn. they know korvaak will break out eventually due to events mentioned above, so in a desperate plan, they enter the physical world of cairn disguised as their alternate selves which resembles their original mortal forms (note that byscilla’s form is very close to her description as the foreign priestess that seduced ulzuin in one of FG’s lore notes, which supports players’ theory that the 3 cult leaders are the 3 witch gods in disguise)
to lead their cults directly in preparation for war against korvaak and his chosen.

at some point in the main quests of FG, you can ask byscilla, draellus or sagon (depending on which cult you support in the main FG campaign) where is the 3 witch gods and what are they doing now, byscilla and draellus will somehow FLINCH slightly in their answer when asked that question (i don’t recall sagon doing that, he just seemed angry all the time) which imo seemed VERY SUSPICIOUS.

yeah, they don’t join the final battle against korvaak. even korvaak insults them for not daring to face him after all these centuries (which means they use their power to contain him from very far away…) they can only offer the taken a key to open a path to korvaak’s prison (which must also take lots of effort due to korvaak regaining lots of power.

the 3 cult leaders went missing suspiciously after the taken defeated korvaak, presumably to the eldritch realm to repair their domains (of course we can’t meet the 3 witch gods, they prefer working from the shadows, while sending their emissary to conduct business with the taken). it could also be because they are wary too of the taken. what if the taken meets them in their true form and decides to challenge them for lootz… it will jeopardize all the plans they have to make sure cairn survives. so they choose to keep hiding in the shadows. even in the morgoneth’s beacon of the night crisis (FG roguelike dungeon) they prefer to be silent (maybe because riggs already gave the taken all the clues needed to beat morgoneth and stop yugol’s incursion).

and speaking of draellus’s concern about yugol, do note that after the event of grim dawn, the barriers between cairn’s physical realm and many otherworldy dimensions (aetherial, void, eldritch, etc.)got jingle-jangled. many gods went missing or silent. the 3 witch gods are too busy containing korvaak. mogdrogen does whatever he does. ravager just want to return back to cairn in force. ch’thon is still trying to piece himself together through his cult. which means there’s little the remaining gods of cairn are doing to prevent yugol’s incursion. especially when yugol suddenly gains sonic speed due to morgoneth’s special coupon for all you can eat buffet in cairn from his beacon of the night thingamajig. the beacon is a very unnatural construct… who knows the aftereffects it can cause to cairn, since yugol has shown some of his tentacular presence, despite the presences of the 3 witch gods, mogdrogen, ravager, ch’thon, and how many hidden gods remaining in cairn.

sorry i spoiled your expectations about barrowholm people. because i thought people that visit this thread already finished all the campaigns (vanilla gd, AoM, FG) and side quests. the thread title already gave spoiler warnings for that. but i understand if you or other players missed some loreworthy quests, conversations, or details due to how players have to do different playthroughs to understand the lore.

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it could be that there is another 3rd party infiltrating and accusing korvaak as usurper. maybe an unknown celestial.. .

who knows. afaik from rion the scholar’s lore notes, the magic that rewrite the texts that describes korvaak and the eldritch throne usurpation in the korvan city library seems… forced, and the parchments used to restore them seems new…

https://grimdawn.fandom.com/wiki/Writings_of_Rion_the_Scholar_-_6th_Entry

I have made a startling discovery while on my latest foray into the Korvan texts. While exploring the vast collection of the Korvan City Library, I briefly escaped the attention of its stewards and found my way to a closed-off archive. Among ancient birth records of some of the most prestigious Korvan families, several ascendants included, I unearthed a collection of texts that appear to shatter some of the core tenets of the very faith that is central to these people’s lives.

A large number of the pages were badly damaged, as if whatever ward cast upon them had violently dissipated. Strangely, the parchment itself appeared newer than some of the records I’ve seen; perhaps someone had restored a damaged record at a later date. The bits that I could make out, however, painted a very different account of the early years of the Korvan faith.

Korvaak himself was shown as a usurper, a conqueror of a realm he had no part in making. It is not entirely clear if the Korvaak that is spoken of today is even the same one described in those texts or whether that is the name given to the master of the Eldritch Throne.

Another curiosity was the description of the upheaval involved in such a transition of power, a whirlwind of creation and destruction within which were caught the unfortunate believers. Sadly, before I could complete my analysis of the text, one of the stewards discovered my presence in the closed-off archive and promptly chased me out of the building.

What little I’ve managed to read offers some troubling conclusions. Is Korvaak’s rule destined to falter as it had before? If so, will the same destruction consume these people when it does? It is truly a shame that I could not spend more time with those texts as they represented a fantastic culmination of my research into the origins of the Korvan faith.

Alas, I must prepare to leave this land and, though I have learned a great deal, I am certain there is more than a lifetime of knowledge hidden away here. The devotion and machinations of the Korvan people have proven to be one of my most fascinating studies.

imo, solael is the one that forcefully broke the ward to those texts (he’s a violent sorcerer that likes dangerous darkflame magic) and rewrite the contents of those texts, with the guidance of dreeg to avoid the guards there. and perhaps dreeg also secretly confounded the stewards so that rion could unknowingly wander innocently into those texts and perhaps spread the words that korvaak is a usurper that gains the eldritch throne through violent means that cause great cataclysm to cairn in the past. if any unknown celestials infiltrate the place to do something like that, dreeg would have known due to the seer power korvaak bestows to him.

regardless, unless the unknown celestial infiltrators’ existence are revealed or not, dreeg and solael are the most likely culprits that vandalize these texts.

anyway, does anyone notice that rion the scholar’s name is basically empyrion without the empy part? this could mean empyrion had some worshippers in cairn at that time. who knows how many they are compared to korvaak followers though.