SPOILER ALERT: Lore Discussion

Could someone clear this bit up for me.

I’ve been wondering about a few things regarding the Hidden Path

-The Three Guardians, who are they and why do they attack us? Aren’t we followers of the Three

-The Mad Queen is she related to the lore or is she simply a Derm Queen of some other nest who went insane when she was separated?

-The lore mentions that a Dreeg thrall was responsible for the Eldritch Creatures inside the temple. Does this account for the Sentinel as well?
Is the Sentinel a servant of three cause he wasn’t attacking The Attendant?

-(Non-lore) Does The Sentinel ever spawn w/o the Eldritch Gaze on? I saw him spawn with a human face (no helm) in the crucible once)

I’ve been wondering about a few things regarding the Hidden Path

-The Three Guardians, who are they and why do they attack us? Aren’t we followers of the Three …A test of worthiness i guess, the ones in the temple were also slaughterd because they were weak and arrogant:rolleyes:

No clue about the rest

Yeah makes sense considering the nature of The Three

Still, why the heck do they drop pants? I mean the rest of the MIs make sense to me but animals shitting out pants doesn’t

Things haven’t been the same since the Three vanished without a trace…

The Mad Queen is not associated with the Eldritch gods.

The Sentinel not having a helm in the crucible was a bug.

Gamism? If MIs only ever made literal sense, animals would never have anything. Or do you carry a sword-crafting kit with you when you fight Dermapterans? You skin their ass hairs off and sew yourself some pants on the spot.

-Thanks for all the replies.

-Actually the slicers being Derm claws made a lot of sense (the shape kinda matches as well). The pants on the other hand, well I didn’t notice a lot of fur on that pterodactyl known as Guardian of Solael (but oh well)

-Only one left unanswered, is The Sentinel a servant of The Three or is she some random over-powered Eldritch Creature?

Dermapterans claws as a weapon make a lot of sense, insectoid in general have amazing natural weapons.
Could be a fun feature to craft the sword pommel for it at the blacksmith. :smiley:

Actually I had a thought on this. If you look at her lair there are massive amounts of Aetherial tainted corpses around her. With the aetherial invasion going on they must be fairly recent and likely her lore is more in the aetherial direction. Maybe, as you said, she went insane or something because she got cut off from her lair during the aetherial invasion, if we are to take her name in the literal sense

Actually the Flavor text from the mad queens claw clarifies this, the fortress ramparts shes under got build around her and basically trapped her, while her hive was probably destroyed by legionaries or other workers while the walls were being constructed.

also as for the area being called Foundation of Corpses, think about structures like Hoover Dam and The Great Wall of China where either from exhaustion or accidents hundreds or thousands of people died while building these things, they probably decided to just dump the bodies down there.

Even though i disagree i think this is an interesting way to look at it.

Failed aetherial experiments maybe?

Cause i doubt she killed all those Aetherial Thrashers herself, she’s not that strong (her aura is though)

The best canon.

Could be it. But some of those corpses look like Fleshwraped Butchers/ Thrashers.

From what i understand you need more than a long dead corpse to make these.

About Rashalga…

The foundation is an odd place - the corpses do indeed look like aether tainted bodies, but it may just be that the mountains of bodies are, from a code and design perspective, recycled assets from other areas of the game. If memory serves correctly, Lucius’ boss room and Anasteria’s boss room (if you fight her) are filled with similar piles of fleshwarped bodies. Also what strikes me as odd about the Foundation is the pond of fresh blood inside Rashalga’s area - as an odd contrast to how much of the game’s environments are liberally strewn with guts and viscera, the Foundation of Corpses is one of the only places that has actual pools/puddles of blood, with the only other place I know of being one certain area inside the Temple of the Three.

I’m under the impression that the Foundation of Corpses has some sort of naturally-formed cave formation connecting its ceiling to the surface, and that Aetherwarped creatures who weren’t familiar with the Asterkarn’s terrain have been accidentally falling into the cave over the course of the Grim Dawn: my thinking is that they’re left mortally injured by the fall, after which point the Mad Queen kills them or just lets them drown in the blood pond. At the very least, I’m not convinced that Rashalga killed all those creatures to feed on them, considering how careless she is in letting them rot/lose all their nutritious fluids.

At the very least, that’s the most likely explanation I can think of for how her chamber is filled with freshly-dead bodies if she’s apparently trapped in there.

Of course, I’m personally more keen on believing that the Foundation of Corpses’ design is more for the players’ sake: Considering how lethal Rashalga is, it’s appropriate that her area needs to appear overtly, exceedingly dangerous.


About the Temple of the Three

The Sentinel does seem to be a mystery. The Attendant doesn’t seem to acknowledge the Sentinel at all in dialogue, but everything about The Sentinel seems to suggest that he/she/they/it served as some sort of guard appointed by the Witch Gods to defend the temple. I don’t think the Sentinel is or was ever a human at any point, since The Attendant’s dialogue gives me the impression that the Eldritch Gods don’t reward their human followers with that sort of power.

One question I have to ask is how the Occultist abilities fit into the lore context of the Witch Gods going ‘missing’ - for instance, the description of the “Possession” skill states that the Witch God Solael essentially assumes direct control of your character, which seems a bit odd if he’s apparently ‘missing’ according to anecdotes from his previous devotees. Similarly, the fact that the ‘Eye of Dreeg’ skill works perfectly fine implies that Dreeg is still capable of influencing Cairn in some shape or form, even if his covens were unable to commune with him directly.

Nice observation skills you got there. But I don’t think the game’s lore ever acknowledges our class (along with some other things). It’s like we’re using Blood Orb of Ch’thon against Ch’thonians. Why would Chthon allows us to do that?

Probably because ultimately Ch’thon wants to invade (or return to, if you believe that lore) Cairn’s reality, and when it comes to that ANY mention or use of his/her/its powers essentially acts as a tiny bridge between the world of Cairn and wherever hell he/she/it is.
This is a kind of recurring trope among fantasy works, from classics like the Lord of the Rings to games like D&D to contemporary novels like the Dresden Files and even TV shows like Supernatural - that belief is power. Obviously going so far as to use powers as associated with Ch’thon goes a bit further than belief.

Personally, I’m not very happy with the changes to the three. I preferred it when it was implied that the witch gods stood for the type of people that were drawn to occultism - Solael for ambition, Dreeg for a thirst of knowledge and Bysmiel for the oppressed. This brought the witch gods more in line with being extra-dimensional beings that human minds probably couldn’t fathom, which would explain the extremely diverse nature of their followers - from the occultist who goes around trying to heal the sick and the diseased regardless of payment or gratitude (the Touch of Purity item) to the more malevolent fanatics of Solael.

The recent changes made them more human than I would have liked, and that’s a very different can of worms.
The problem is that it’s now difficult to reconcile what we previously knew about them with the new lore, unless you go down one path - that the witch gods are ultimately petty beings who simply don’t care enough about their followers and Cairn and who are more interested in their own squabbles.
Very human. It’s like watching reality TV.
The sheer number of their slain followers who could have done good (considering how much one man/woman - the playerchar - has accomplished) stands as a testament to what they are. Even Mogdrogen didn’t attempt to inspire/tempt his followers with promises of whatever while leaving them to die. Mogdrogen may be harsh, but at least he knows when to draw the line between that and being cruel.

It’s going to take a lot of work to turn that around, and the only way I can see that happening is if they finally step up and take a massive risk for the sake of Cairn - again a very human gesture. The thing about picking a theme is that you’re now forced to stick to it.

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I wouldn’t consider the player skills attached to an item, as a part of the items lore itself. It may just be gamism just giving the item a thematic link with player skills.

its likely the first owner of touch of purity was either some apothecary or soothsayer (as referenced by this being a part of the flavor text in the apothecary/soothsayer set, and also that set has bonuses to BoD/mend flesh but also soldier skills like Menhirs Will) or just some wandering priest of menhir.

The cloaked figure always stood out as being an occultist for me, in a large part because he obviously desired anonymity and was always on the move.
You’d think a priest/apothecary/soothsayer would also be priest-ing/apothercary-ing/soothsayer-ing part of the time.

Personally, I prefer the depiction of the Witch Gods as humans who - according to ancient myths - discovered a way to tap into the Eldritch realm. I’d argue that Bysmiel and Solael both have an incredibly amount of overlap in that they’re both very concerned with a “Will to Power” motivation, while Dreeg’s depiction as a cursed, perpetually suffering consciousness infinitely buckling to insanity under the weight of its own knowledge seems a tad left-field. The depiction of the Witch Gods as fickle, capricious and vaguely malevolent doesn’t make me think of a soap opera at all, in fact, I find it reminds me quite a bit of the myths about Ancient Gods - particularly the Greek pantheon
(See: Athena, Aphrodite and Hera starting a war that obliterated an entire civilization for an argument about a piece of inedible, engraved fruit, Hera throwing her own baby into the ocean because he had a birth defect, aforesaid clubfooted God-baby returning only to be bullied into marrying the Goddess of Beauty as a throwaway joke by the other Gods, Hera driving Hercules insane and making him murder his wife and children as a way of taking out the frustration she had towards his father, Poseidon forcing a woman to watch her daughter get ripped apart by a sea monster because the sea-nymphs were jealous of her beauty, etc.).

I think of the Three as Humans who, for one reason or another, Ascended.
Bysmiel comes off as having done it by accident, because her information network and manipulative influence spread so far, that in order to spread further/maintain this, she became a Witch God.
Dreeg, clearly, Ascended out of a quest for knowledge, more knowledge than a mortal can find in one lifetime, more knowledge than a mortal mind can contain…And hence his issue. His mind may no longer be mortal, but because he WAS mortal, he still thinks that way, and he can’t reconcile one with the other.
Solael, TBH, I have no real idea what he is/does. He’s affiliated with flame, chaos, and apparently, being very fond of his servants, even though his servants aren’t fond of how he shows that.

@Machofish
Are you being sarcastic?
You do realize that the actions of the Ancient Greek pantheon were seen as soap opera-ish, even by the Ancient Greeks themselves (who created plays to reflect this).
The examples you gave perfectly demonstrate this.
I mean seriously, these guys were the ones who came up with Oedipus. They were THE original soap opera gurus.

Guys even though this is a spoiler thread i personally think we should use spoiler tags for discussions on this topic