The spoiler/s in my post are based off of the xpac info dropped by Zantai in the latest dev stream (see Chthon’s comment above mine for a transcription of said spoilers).
So, who do we all think the Nemesis is for the new Beast faction? The lore option would dictate it is Mogdrogen, who is clearly known for attacking those who he even suspects are killing his precious animals.Item description of Mark of the Traveler.
Edit: To clarify, as the Avatar of Mogdrogen is already present in-game and serves a different purpose, we can likely assume this will not the case.
Please show me the Beasts Mogdrogen spared from the hunt. There’s an aetherial corruption patch plaguing his precious beasts 10 feet away from him, the asshead still stands there enjoying the scenery
Mogdrogen is the shittiest character in the game
I’ve read a lot of discussion on Mogdrogen and his use of lightning in his avatar fight. However, given that there are way more deities than there are aspects/elements in this game, there is bound to be a lot of overlap in the powers of the gods.
Here are some of the other commonalities I’ve noticed that are not discussed as much. These are based on in-game lore, notes, constellations and items devoted to said deities.
The only Gods that don’t have an overlap as far as I can tell is Dreeg with acid/poison and Amatok with cold.
I’ve also read a recent forum post that there will be 5 new deities(?) introduced in the expansion. To me, its no big deal that Mog and Ultos share the element of lightning. Heck, one of the strongest pet builds atm makes use of lightning conversion.
It’s not so much that Cairn’s deities (I won’t use the term god for this particular discussion, since we don’t really know what they are) command a particular “element” as they’re simply associated with it, I’d say. Ulzuin is proof of this because he only became associated with destructive flame after he was betrayed. Empyrion is basically the god of light, hence fire. Ch’thon is associated with chaos probably because of where he was banished (the void, which is heavily associated with chaos) and vitality because he wants the life essence of every living being in Cairn. Solael left a trail of corpses and destruction in his quest for power, hence vitality/chaos. Dreeg became a monster in constant pain/agony, hence acid/poison. Mogdrogen the titan was said to have been the created by the gods, and I suspect Ultos probably had a hand in his creation because he likes to use lightning.
Or maybe they’re just really close or something.
Obviously the nemesis for the beast faction will be a psychotic teddy bear, as a reminder that we’ve killed lot of somethings that didn’t deserve to be killed (you’ll have to, to reach nemesis reputation with beasts).
Hate to be that guy but I am not really hyped up for the two new enemy factions-
Beast faction- Groble Tyrants rounding about the others under one name (or many “one names”) I can get by that
But grobles aren’t the only beasts out there
They’re far too unorganized to be considered a faction
Aetherial Vanguard- What is this anyway?
I am not getting too judgemental cause i am waiting for the final release
The enemy factions are the only thing in the expansion that i am not hyped up for
But friendly Ugdenbog faction (called it!!) is something I want
Also could someone remind me how many new town centres we’ll get?
The way I see it, the Vanguard will be the Aetherials’ “front line” forces, what they originally attacked Cairn with. Up until now, we’ve been fighting possessed and reanimated beings that already existed on Cairn prior to the Aetherial invasion, i.e. raised dead and possessed trolls. The closer we move toward the fallen capital city where the invasion started (Malmouth?) we start to encounter the “real” Aetherials instead of just their possessed/reanimated minions. That’s just my theory though.
But friendly Ugdenbog faction (called it!!) is something I want
Given that we know this faction is called the Witches of Ugdenbog (or something along those lines), I am interested to see if Rallia, the witch from the Burn the Taken quest, is associated with them in any way. Maybe burning her/saving her will actually mean something in the grand scheme of things now?
Necromancer rocks, was a long time necromancer fan (DII) if i even had a hint that one would be added to the game i’d have gone with a different username
When I made this profile Chthon was the most logical of all the Gods, and Dreeg was an equal favorite of mine. Unfortunately, someone had already booked “Avatar of Dreeg” so went with Chthon
Lol, real aetherials?
It’d be a miracle if even one battalion of aetherials could hold a candle to a small horde of chthonians in terms of power
Frankly they’re in over their heads in this entire mess with the chthonians and Gods
I am fan too, waiting from you for new masteries build guides. I am gonna level no mastery guy in crucible till i can and instantly start advantageous then will apply your build when i reach 100 so i hope you can make ready till i reach top
I won’t start posting right off the bat. Need to dick around first
Going try out some things -
Inquisitor + Necromancer first for DV/Kymon dialogues
Death Knigtht second (cause I’m a big fan of Arthas Menethil and hate WoW with a passion for making someone like Tirion Fordring kill Arthas and to make matters worse they had frostmourne shattered by some sword which has naaru crystal which they pulled out from their ass)
Reaper third (Cause it’s called a fucking reaper )
Necromancer + Occultist next (My current favorite mastery (Occultist) combined with my all time favorite)
And then I’ll try do a solo Necromancer build. I have an item that could enable me to do that, but solo classes are a bitch so keeping my fingers crossed
Alright Chthon, my fellow gentleman, let’s discuss the political, ethical and moral standpoints on which the cult of Chthon operates.
Let’s see, you are saying we can justify the cult’s actions because they are trying to revive their god. I can certainly live with them trying to resurrect their deity, nothing wrong in the core thinking of that, however…
The methods. The primal example of the line “Goal justifies the means”. I definitely disagree with this statement, because, of course, it promotes the idea of zealots. You see, they are dangerous precisely because they are zealots. They kill people, they plunder the land, defile everything’s important to other people. A group of fanatics, based purely on religious beliefs is basically what today’s islam is. Terrorists.
The prologue. So you are saying we can forgive them because Empyrion and other were faggots that killed poor Chthon who did nothing wrong. But, we actually don’t know shit about what happened during the God’s War. Yeah, Empyrion took the Spear of Heavens and killed Chthon, but have you ever thought about REASONS, which he based his judgement upon? Not only that, from the looks of it, all other gods supported him. There was no disagreement that something’s maybe wrong, no. They all went and killed him. Don’t you find this a little bit suspicious?
Creation. So you are saying Chthon must be resurrected. Cool, but what if he decides to destroy everything, when he’s up and running? What if he didn’t want human in the first place and THAT’S why Empyrion killed him? In this case, all of cult’s actions are pointless, futile, since they are literally approaching to their own doom. Or… they are fucking suicide maniacs, which actually make them worse.
Moral and ethical ground. So you are saying that people are just shown the truth. But I again, present you the counter-evidence of Avalline’s notes. They were just a normal family, loving and united at that. It specifically mentions that people were going for the cult not because of the beliefs, but because the were given shelter… at first. The the indocrination begins. The notes describe the process, pointing to blood rituals and pressuring people by offering them food and protection. Those who disagree are disposed of - Avalline sacrifices her entire family in a bloody massacre. So it goes without saying that people are literally being brainwashed and intimitated. But is it righteous, as people were saying? Can you justify murder? Can you justify killing your own family, because some fucking weirdo in a mask says so? I don’t think so. Let me present you with another piece. A small note in Log’s tomb. A man found the courage to break free from indocrination. And he quite literally says so - that he was forced to believe. But it TOOK HIM YEARS and sheer power of will to try. Imagine how powerful the process of assimilation is then. Nevertheless, he himself describes the cult as a vile place, so he asks for courage before venturing into battle with them. Truly, a hero.
The people. Apart from those who actually believe in Chthon, there are people who do it just for fun, beside believing. I’m talking about Zaria, of course, who founded pleasure in killing innocents. She practically orgasms from the view of blood and such. Can these people be trusted?
TL;DR - Chthon sucks balls, and his cult too.
Addendum: You are also saying that other gods are pretty bad too. Hahaha, I ACTUALLY agree with this! In fact, I consider ALL of them worthless faggots, who didn’t try to help humanity at all! I long for eradicating them entirely from Cairn. Humanity must prevail.
I can agree with most of what you are saying … however I personally believe when after feeling a great wrong has been done to person “A” they want to get revenge against person “B”. When you are dealing with a deity or god as a theory then said revenge which could be completely justified from a certain point of view gets out of hand the consequences could be disastrous. There is a reason why in the war on terror the innocents are called infidels … its called living in the past and taking your revenge against someone who wasn’t even born yet when your ancestors who from their point of view were wronged and decided to raise their kids with revenge and hate. It’s a vicious cycle and I for one would love to see instead of complete story ending for it to be left open for a grim dawn 2. I would be even more happy for a grim dawn prequel story game to play out the events mentioned in the lore.
Hey, excellent point on revenge, missed this out, thanks. I agree that Chthon, or whoever is behind all the cultists, definitely wants revenge, so he raises them zealots in a vicious cycle of constant struggle with both humanity and Aetherials. It’s also another negative points towards Chthon, however, it at least somehow explains the actions of cultists more and goes a bit deeper into their philosophical standpoints.
Prequel would be nice, but I don’t want the first game to be open-ended. Today developers use this as a justification to basically milk the series. Granted, I know Crate is not like this, but still it smells episodic, so it’s a no from me. It’s also a big red flag for a game to halt it’s production entirely if something happens to the studio, so we would be left hanging. More of my thoughts on this are in the Expansion News thread.
I am normally with you 100%, however with this company and game being funded via a kickstarter and not being a big company with “X” amount of titles being pushed out I have faith that even if a sequel or prequel required another kickstarter to happen it would get done as the fans have clearly said we like this and want more. That is the only reason I feel comfortable with an open or “hanging” ending.
I see where are you coming from, and I accept this. It’s definitely possible. Well, another reason I would like the conclusive ending more is the probability to explore Cairn after timeskip, when all the threats are quelled. Maybe some new setting with new locations, new technology, eh?
Anyway, this is a Lore thread, so please feel free to discuss this further either in private on in a new thread still, so we will not derail the current thread too much…
I find it fascinating that a hack and slash arpg can create such a lively discussion about its lore. Its truly a testament to Crate for creating such a vivid and joyful game.
It is a zero sum game over there. Chthon wants the living essence of all beings. If they live, Chthon does not. If Chthon lives, they do not. The ultimate acheivement of being one with Chthon is non-existence.
Its not like denizens of Cairn chose sides, they are aligned with one already by the fact of their birth and moral choices have no play in this. Their deities might be villains and bastards, but they are their kin so to say. In that regard, Chthonic cult is a true heresy.
Precisely why he is a threat and should be removed. Also, cultist are really basically suicide maniacs, nice. Or, as I must correct myself here a little, they were forced into being suicide maniacs… huh.
Well, not really. Unlike many other beings, humans are free to choose, that’s the whole point of being one. You are not dependant on any supernatural shit, like Chthon or Aetherials, you have a choice to forge your own path. It’s a gimmick that persists through countless videogames, and I don’t see any reason for it not presenting itself here.
Besides, gods are gone. Witch Gods are gone, Menhir is gone, everyone is missing. I don’t think this is a mere coincidence. It’s a free ticket for humanity to break their chains.
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