The Carnival - A Guide to Pets

Ulvar1 · February 20, 2021, 5:58am

I did some testings with reap spirit and pulsing shard, the +50% crit dmg only affected the “spell” part of reap spirit and not the “pet” part.

I might try this budget version, or some budget version, in the near future

pastooleo1 · February 20, 2021, 6:42am

EDIT: fucked that quote up big time at first lmao

For your question of a beginner build towards Ishtar, I’m levelling a character for it right now, and looking at the Ishtar gear, it seems like a lot of it rides on that fact that a lot of the damage your pets do end up getting converted to Vitality damage, and then you reducing Vitality resistance in a number of ways. Also, Reap Spirit pets seem to be huge damage dealers, and the ability to take the summon limit from 2 onwards is another huge point of the build I believe.
It’s hard to really do that or make that work on a budget since the legendaries that are used are some of the only options for doing these things…

So I’m levelling a Necro self found using Maya’s PDF guide for just the Necro levelling, with some slight adjustments that might be worse but they feel better for the time being and the gear I’ve found.
At level 79 I’ve omitted Spectral Binding/Wrath since they seem like minor HP bonuses and res reduction bonuses when I feel like res reduction only feels necessary in Ultimate, omitted Bone Harvest for the same reason, and am speccing into Briarthorn as well because my gear is just working for that. Anyways, my point is, while levelling I think you’ll so a lot better to work with what you find, instead of trying to make a prescribed build work. Being able to do this also depends on your ARPG experience as well though, so if you’re new to them in general, it might be more difficult to run with what you find. I’ve played Diablo 2 and Path of Exile for years, so I’m adapting to Grim Dawn alright, but I think a lot of this might go over my head if I were totally new to ARPGs lol.
Here’s my char right now just for reference on how I’m making my skills work with my gear and vice versa, I was really lucky to find a Sovereign Ruby of Domination while levelling since it’s one of the final items for the Ishtar build haha!
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/YNn8aAbV

Maya:

pastooleo1:

Hi there Maya, kinda new to GD (I have one self-made level 100 character, but he can only really run Elite and doesn’t cut it on Ultimate) and I’m following your guide with the basic Necromancer levelling setup, and added in Briarthorn as well so far as you suggested. It’s going awesome! I’m planning on moving towards the Ishtar build once I have enough items for it.

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/RZRwAO4N

These are the items I’m running right now, with Reap Spirit, Skeletons, Blight Fiends, and Briarthorn. I found a Scorpius Pummeler MI, and it seems like it should be pretty powerful with Blight Fiends and Briarthorns since it’s hard to scale pet Physical damage, and lot easier to scale monster Acid/Poison with Master of Death having Acid/Poison damage scaling (and the Gallstone weapon component giving a considerable Acid/Poison scaling bonus to pets as well).

However, the Epic I’m using right now gives points to Skeletons, the Vitality damage that Master of Death is also converting and scaling, and general pet damage. I tried out Grim Internals to see rough pet DPS with each weapon, and it’s almost exactly the same, like within 1,000-2,000 DPS or so, with the Pummeler resulting in way more acid damage than phys damage %wise though.

I’m thinking if I could farm a Scorpius Pummeler with some good suffixes/prefixes for other skills I use, it might be better than the Deadbeater? What do you think? I don’t know if I should even bother, lol. It just seems like such an interesting MI, and also seems like Acid damage might be better than Physical damage in general since I think monsters typically have good armor, but not great resistances if I’m correct? Hopefully it’s alright to ask random questions like this in this thread lol, don’t know where else would be better with you being the famous pet build expert.

EDIT: Also, what does “Total Damage Modified by 35% to Summon Briarthorn” mean on Bloodsworn Codex?! Modified in what way?! Do Briarthorns now do 35% of their previous damage?! Why would anyone want that?! Do they do 35% MORE damage? How does that differ from a 35% All Damage mod if that’s the case? Is it an entire extra multiplier for the calculation? Or do they do 35% LESS damage?! WHAT DOES IT MEAN

First of all, welcome and glad to hear that you are enjoying the build.

As for your question, currently either works since we are using Master of Death. But, as soon as you get enough points for Primal Bond, you will be switching to that. So there will no more physical to vitality conversion for pets. That is where Scorpius will completely outshine Deadbeater as the choice of weapon.

That said, there is very little reason to not switch to a good rolled Scorpius if you come across one. Even in the worst case scenario, as you yourself noted, you can’t go wrong with Scorpius. It can only get better

As for “Total Damage Modified by 35% to Summon Briarthorn”, it essentially multiplies the damage your Briarthorns do, by 35%.

To differentiate between that and +X %dmg,
Let us say that your Briarthorns are doing 100 dmg each atm.
Then you get +1000% pet dmg.
Your Pets will now do 1000 dmg each, right?

Now, let us say that you get +35% “pet dmg” on top of it
Your pets will now do 1035 dmg each.

But with +35% “total damage”, your pets will be doing 1350 dmg each instead.

Thanks! The conversion stuff makes more sense to me now thanks. I think I’m best sticking with Master of Death for now until I can safely spec out of Skeletons and start relying more on other minions and converting their damage more massively with the Ishtar build gear. I also went and did 2 runs of Sunbane Oasis and that scorpion dungeon boss near it… And got really lucky with a Scorpius Pummeler with +4 to Blight Fiend instead of +2 AND attack speed to all minions too. Super lucky lmao. Bloodsworn codex sounds sweet too with the multiplier, (thanks @Ulvar1 for explaining that too) but probably better for another build when I could be using stuff like Dreadguard or Og’Napesh for the time being

Ulvar1 · February 20, 2021, 7:06am

Thinking more about the “budget” reap spirit build, what if one use Bysmiel devotion for flat RR instead of Behemot? Here is an older sketch of mine (idea was to have call of the grave higher up time too) (Halion crest for mind control) https://www.grimtools.com/calc/lNkG3LBN

And also at some point, I wanna try this “mini ghoul” acid pet ritualist https://www.grimtools.com/calc/a2dBwbJZ

Maya · February 20, 2021, 7:15am

I was trying not to deviate much from the final build interms of skills/devotions.

I don’t consider it to be a properly viable thing to go for Ishtar from the get go itself since a lot of its power is locked behind the items.

Ulvar1 · February 20, 2021, 7:17am

Yeah of course, but it is always interesting (for me at least) to see how far one can take build concepts without BiS gear

Maybe pulsing shard could get some small skill recharge to reap spirit, or something? To improve the pet part of the skill from a leveling perspective

pastooleo1 · February 22, 2021, 12:13am

I’m very confused about how some skills work with pets/or not. For example, Wendigo totem says it applies an aura, so it applies it to your pets too.
Mogdrogen’s Pact says it affects your allies too… But… With pets, does that mean pets also get the flat phys damage, health regen, and energy regen?

And if they DO get those things, how does the order-of-operations damage calc work in that case? Since aura is calculated LAST, does the flat phys still get partially converted to vitality in the Ishtar build case? If yes, does that mean the +%phys applies to that phys before it’s converted to vitality damage, or not? Is the phys calculated… before it’s applied as an aura? Very confused lol.

Referencing this post for order-of-operations

Ulvar1 · February 22, 2021, 4:40am

mogdrogens pact and blood pact affects your pets too yes.

but their flat damages gets added first, then all +%dmg bonuses. Always, on all builds, flat first, then +%dmg

SLima · February 22, 2021, 6:14am

Can someone please tell me if it’s fine to go for a low armor value in your gear in order to preserve the resistances of the pets? I got an absolutely amazing drop for my pants slot (Bysmiel-Sect Legguards) but i’m stuck with the one i have because of the elemental resistances it provides for the pets and it’s the same thing with the gloves.

I looked for an alternative in my inventory and the only thing i can do is drop my helm (bysmiel faction, 1500 armor, good bonuses) and equip the Mythical Crown of Command for the bonus to elemental resistance. But that thing has 933 armor and it seems really weak. My other option is farming in Elite for an Ascendant Cowl (provides elemental resistance and has better armor value). The ideal scenario would be equipping the Mythical Beastcaller’s Cowl but i don’t have it yet. Can i neglect my armor value for some time or it’s too dangerous to do that? I’m about to face Commander Lucius and head for the Necropolis in ultimate.

Ulvar1 · February 22, 2021, 6:22am

You play sc right? So dont care about armor. Infact most summoners have paper armor and still kill the super content. Just dont get hit

SLima · February 22, 2021, 5:30pm

Yeah, this character is SC. I’m trying to keep this careful mentality in order to play hardcore in the future. The approach needs to be different if i wanna tackle that challenge.

Ulvar1 · February 22, 2021, 6:32pm

its better to focus keeping your pets alive, they are your armor.

SLima · February 22, 2021, 9:28pm

They are good for shielding you but i don’t understand how aggro works very well. Sometimes they take all the aggro. Other times i have chargers on my neck all the time. How Generate Additional Threat works? I’m not using it but the Ishtar proc says Taunt target. Is it any different from the pets just drawing aggro to themselves? Is it a debuff?

Maya · February 23, 2021, 1:09am

All auras apply Pets fully. So pets get everything from them even if it doesn’t specifically state that it is for pets.

But when it comes to auras that also has a specific list of pet bonuses, your pets get the player part & the pet part while you only get the player part.

Regarding conversions, as @Ulvar1 said, the flat damage gets added first.

So part of the Flat phys dmg from Mogdrogen’s Pact gets converted into Vitality depending on how much conversion you have on the gloves.

However, the +% Phys does not apply to the part that gets converted.

So to give an example, On Ishtar, you have 32-42 Flat Physical dmg from Mogdrogen’s Pact along with +100% phys dmg to pets.

Let us say that you have 50% dmg conversion from phys to vitality on gloves.

Your pets gets 16-21 flat Vitality dmg from the Aura along with 16-21 flat Phys dmg.

And to that Phys dmg (and any other your pets might have, either innately or from other sources), that +100% phys dmg bonus gets added as well, along with any other source of +% phys dmg or +% all dmg.

Hope that clears it up.

Maya · February 23, 2021, 1:24am

That build uses Lokarr Set to do Gladiator Crucible 150-170 without blessings or banners, kill Ravager and do SR 75-76 on Ultimate.

You don’t need armor on pet builds

Pets aggro enemies by default. How much the value is, I am not sure. But different pets generate different amount of aggro/threat.

For example, you will find Briarthorn even without Ground Slam, holding aggro better than Familiar or Reap Spirit.

Now, Hellhound, Briarthorn and Blightfiend have special skills that generate aggro. The more point you invest into these skills, the better they become at holding aggro.

Taunt is a bit different as it more or less forces enemies to go after your pets instead of you whenever it procs, instead of simply generating threat.

Think of it as the highest level of Threat or Aggro your pets can generate. Outside of Ishtar’s proc, the only other one ingame is Briarthorn’s Ground Slam at 17 points. It changes from Generate Additional Threat to Taunt at 17/12.

However, bosses and such tend to have resistance against taunting. So that is also something to keep in mind. You can look up taunt resistance for enemies in GT’s monster database.

For example, Gravathul has 45% taunt resistance: https://www.grimtools.com/monsterdb/1154/skills
While Ravager has 75%: https://www.grimtools.com/monsterdb/364/skills

I am not sure on exactly how all these things interact on a mathematical basis, but in practice it just means that a Briarthorn with 1 point in Ground Slam (GS) will hold better aggro compared to a Briarthorn with 0 points in GS and a Briarthorn with 10 points in GS will hold aggro even better and at 17 points it becomes Taunt and hence much more effective.

And compared to Ravager, Grava will be more inclined to aggro on your pets most of the time due to lower taunt resistance.

pastooleo1 · February 23, 2021, 5:29am

The 1.1.8.0 Ishtar build had a Sovereign Ruby of Domination amulet, while the 1.1.9.0 build has a Shard of Command amulet instead. Was that change intentional? Sovereign Ruby of Domination still seems like it’s a better item, no?

SLima · February 23, 2021, 5:40am

Thanks for all the information! Since Pet builds can get away with low armor then i shouldn’t need the 10000 damage absorption from the proc on the boots (Mythical Fiend Flesh Greaves). I want to equip a better set of gloves (i have four different options) but the pet elemental resistances on my gloves were too important. I should be able to equip the Mythical Grim Harvest Boots to compensate for the loss on the gloves and change those for the Mythical Touch of the Everliving Grove. Here is the Grim Tools link for the current state of my character: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/4ZDPX1YZ.

I’m still losing a significant amount of elemental resistance on the pets. The gloves offers 37% resistances and the boots offer only 16%. The resistances go down to 71% but it should be fine right?

Ulvar1 · February 23, 2021, 5:46am

Boot proc is kinda one of the reasons why you can get away with low armor, definitely a must have for HC. Even SC players use them.

BTW, considering ravager eyes in the weapon and off-hand. Did you manage to improve spirit for wearing off-hand? If yes, you can respec out of spider

Maya · February 23, 2021, 6:56am

Reason for the change was simple.
I wanted to see how lazy I could make the build without loosing too much in the process. With Ruby, you have 1 extra button to worry about and while it has nearly 400% dmg bonus over Shard, that only applies half the time due to CD.

Factoring in the CD of the skill, the total pet bonuses from Ruby becomes: +246% Pet dmg, +45 OA & +19.5% Crit dmg. That is still better I suppose since Crit is comparable on both and Shard only has a max 7% total speed as extra. But, like I said, 1 extra button press

What @Ulvar1 said. Boot Proc is rather important. So I wouldn’t recommend switching that out.

If you need Pet Elemental Res, Switch out Keeper’s Dust Augments as they are useless (you are not lacking in pet vitality and stun + freeze res is irrelevant) and instead, go for Rifthound Salts.

Maya · February 23, 2021, 9:17am

PDF guide updated, both online and downloadable versions.

SLima · February 23, 2021, 3:05pm

No, i couldn’t improve my spirit without sacrificing too many points in physique. I had to make the weapon self-sustain itself. I can remove and reequip it because of the Crown of Command but i couldn’t do it before because the off-hand would become unequippable and i would need another item to enable it again. I won’t keep the Crown forever. I’ll replace with the helm from the beastcaller set as soon as i find it. I already have two pieces of the set. But i’m also considering the Ghol set because of the change in damage type from physical to acid on the weapon. I’m not sure yet. I only have the gloves of the Ghol set.