V1.0.0.8 Discussion - Commando and Witchblade

Grim Dawn Classes, Skills and Builds
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This explain why your logic is flawed here, you dont play much crucible and crucible dont have the same needs as vanilla game, this is why witchblade/commando are tier1 crucible build but they are just average in vanilla game (clearing speed wise), and yes i will say it again BWC sorcerer is actually the strongest crucible character i have played in 1.0.0.7, better than WB with faster average 100-150 timer and at least as safe as WB (maybe safer, did only 4-5 runs with 100% succes). If i’am not lazy i will record one run tomorow for the posterity of 1.0.0.7 patch. :stuck_out_tongue:

Edit: PLS stop writing wall of text my brain is melting. :rolleyes:

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  1. That video is not the same setup of BWC Im using.
  2. In original patch notes they weren’t nerfing termite mines much less agonizing flames. So to nerf BWC setup I made they didnt even needed video lol :smiley: And it was op you could facetank almost whole content with it w/o being afraid of dying :wink: And no you dont need mines+shower combo to put things down faster than most builds especially S&B ones.
  3. S&B build aren’t outdpsing almost anything, sheet dps in most cases dont mean jack shit, that’s why Im using dummy kill times as a reference.
  4. If you can avoid Fabius BB its doable in 6-7 secs, I asked you than about dummy kill cuz wasn’t sure are you talking about 7 secs with or w/o him BB.
  5. Etc…
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@drizzto

well i hope you will find some time to record video, ill surely enjoy it and would be helpful.
ya, since i dont play&enjoy crucible, any dungeons clear video 5-10 mins is more than enough. ty

@jov

well i dont think they nerfed mines etc for any bwc builds, they nerfed ALL RR in game already. i clearly see no reason that small tiny nerf caused from your or some1else bwc build… thats my opinion. but w/e your build your call, cant be sure about it. ofc till devs can confirm that all mine and agonizing flames nerfed cause of bwc is broken with ik set, or your build etc.

and again dont wanna talk about dummy kill thing, dummy kill means simply jackshit to me… i care how fast and reliable char clears some area with mobs, not something that simply dumb.
how long can u dps a nemesis spawn/MQ with decent caster which has no DoT dps without kiting meanwhile s&b guy killing it while watching tv :smiley: there are conditions i do care. but w/e we dont need to agree about this.

dummy kills, and sheet dps values are most common mistake i see in this forums for my arpg and game understanding.

for fabius, ya i was super clear there and whined about his BB, my 10.5 11 sec timer was always with BB… but w/e who cares kill times, my point about that post was DW WH was one of best killer in game , while people think its bm.still might be dont know

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that doesn’t make his logic flawed and the second you start balancing for Crucible over the campaign, you are doing something wrong…

145

BWC isn’t overpowered, the defensive skills it has access to are. 1 of Blast Shield or Mirror can pretty much always be up. Then add in Flashbang/searing light and Tree of Life proc and you become almost unkillable. Then you still have Divine Light Proc and Nullification.
And then for crucible you can also put a few points in Flash Freeze just for kicks.

Not sure how Mirror and Tree of Life’s Proc didn’t get their Cooldowns increased also like Blast Shields.

146

Also nerfed % damage blocked on Overguard
reduced % Shield Damage Blocked scaling at ultimate ranks to 235% by max ultimate rank.
And Menhir’s Bulwark nerf stacks
reduced Physical damage scaling with rank. Reduced % Life Damage Reduction to 33% by rank 12, 45% by max ultimate rank.

Hoping this won’t impact things too much- soldier is also losing some health but gaining DPS buffs on Decorated Soldier, Squad Tactics, and Zolhan’s.

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MQ 14 secs of facetanking with SJ elementalist. BWC sorc 30 secs with minimal to none amount of kitting tho BWC has DOT dmg.

P.S. Maybe dummy kill time is stupid for you but its only reliable measure of single target dmg output in game.

Really? Can you please explain me why than I get constant questions is this or that build optimized for gladiator crucible?

All those things you mentioned are on disposal to any sorcerer build ie PRM, CT, TSS or w/e and yet not even single one of them dont perform as well as BWC build.

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PRM and CT perform just as well maybe a little below, obviously TSS doesnt as it isnt spammable and has no business being compared to a spammable skill.
PRM and CT just don’t have built in flat resist reduction.

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With all do respect is not ˝maybe a little below˝ but so much below that its not even wort comparing. And that is not just because of BWC as a skill is/was op but also because of itemization available for BWC build.

150

reall? maybe because mirror is 30s compared to BS which is 12s?

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That video was triggered by our discussion. I had been wantenting to make a SS 2xMQ claw build and I worked on it to achive top fabius kill. It has a special setup to kill fabius like that. So I guess in some way it is/was possible.

I wanted to post that but not anymore because:

  1. Crate nerfs good performance
  2. Point 1 has already occured. After countless patches of nerfs they cut Belgothian proc in half to 1 sec cd
  3. Nidalla’s legwraps were also nerfed with an whatever proc that is defensive.
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aight recorded one 100-150 crucible cleared in 21min54sec (kinda slow compare to the average but w/e)

Enjoy the OPness. :cool:

153

I think it’s more accurate to say Crate nerfs bandwagon jumping, unless it’s nerfing something they see as truly breaks the game (like CDR breaker).

It’s one thing to have outperforming builds on their own. It’s another thing entirely have the vast majority of what the community considers “endgame builds” to start looking awfully similar, and for people to be actively steering new players toward those builds as the One True Way.

Of course there are so many different buffs and nerfs in any given patch that it’s impossible to give one explanation to fit them all.

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This build Really seems to thrive in cruci with the bonuses and low monster stats.

Didn’t think BWC spam would look so good.

And very good choice in music. It will make subsequent nerfs sweeter:D

155

If that Bullshit goes live, I will scrap all my chars for good and just stop playing and give a NEGATIVE score for this game on steam. Such a massive nerf, crates logic is just pure clown magic.

156

Thank you for trying to blackmail us with a review, but the nerf was warranted and is going through.

However, the nerf also comes with adjustments to monsters, so I doubt you’ll notice it nearly as much as you seem to think you will.

157

Is not easy to deal with people sometimes isn’t it?

158

Perhaps it would help if we knew just how much, and in what way, monsters are being nerfed.

Can you give us any details about that?

Sorry some people are getting so bent out of shape. I know you guys are doing what you believe is best for the game.

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well :smiley: i warn you from now on this is gonna be medium wall of text :wink:

i kindly asked you to record main campaign, and i had 3 reasons

  1. i dont play crucible a lotcleared around 10 times , and i dont care crucible performance a loti am ignorant dont mind me
  2. superfluff striked faster than me, crucible mobs die like a fucking fly compare to main campaign, gap is HUGE… but w/e
  3. you have tons of buffs…
  • well build has good aeo clear for sure, due to spammable and dot nature of bwc.
  • on the other hand, at wave 110 it took 55 secs to kill iron maiden… 55 secs with tons of buffs of crucible, and trash stats of iron maiden, and no you couldnt even facetankd her alot. similar story for fabius. kinda same story for zantarin. but overally i rate boss kill speed really so good.dont care dummy performances, thats wtf i was talking about it dummy vs 55 sec crucible iron maiden

    finally, you are wearing one of best set in game, and i am kinda sure you have GG MI’s aswell with all that gear pls clear crucible right?… its awesome caster performance but, ima say this and add a notch,

calling this build OP and claiming its gonna be nerfed from this performance is, not something objective and tbh king of exeggration… but w/e if you call this op for your game understanding, i cant comment further every1 has different standarts&thoughts.

for a bit going further this is your OWN WARBORN S&B WB 1.06 patch Crucible clear time:19.43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az3SSH9DbOg

and again this is your MARKOVIAN WB 0.5 sec set cd nerf time : 22.02
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az3SSH9DbOg

from 1.07 patch notes for giving info : Legendary - Warborn Set: reduced healing on the skill proc to 6%, reduced % Attack Speed set bonus to 9% and Physical damage bonus to 12-22

as you see this is a super duper minor nerf, which wont effect performance by 3-5 mins mark…

and pls let every1 be honest, which one outperforms other ? lol seriously…

  • your own warborn wblade&markovian kills single targets absurdly faster than BWC, gap is huge and not even comparable or come close…
  • your own warborn wblade&markovian, is insanely tanky with prolly zero defensive devotion…
  • your own warborn wblade&markovian has even decent and comparable aoe clear vs BWC… etc etc goes on
    - your own warborn wblade&markovian, doesnt kite and doesnt give a fuck about most mobs there.
    ofc markovian is a bit slower than warborn
    well i was gonna say even my okish geared warborn bmaster *tankier than witchblades imo*, clears faster and safer than your bwc but your own videos saved me so much time, and here is your own performces to judge :smiley: + commandos can do it better aswell…

here i strike again and final timei am tired to explain, simple question, lets say even if your BWC char is OP and BROKEN

hello ? guys you there? a char with shield really should able to clear fasteror equal and safer than a BIS geared caster which is considered to be OP and people paranoiac about its gonna be nerfed? lol what kind of dilemma is that. i am stoned till this topic started.

in all honesty, a char with shield should never ever able to have this much dps… talking with +20 years of game experience, +5 years of working in arpg balance team. this is/was absurd, not acceptable and shouldnt be happening in one of best arpg in history.

so pls, all guys who concern about s&b nerfs, it clearly was needed. and if i were create i would cut their dmg output further and didnt touch overguard and tankiness sides. and i am %99 sure they will still be top tier chars for main content and crucible… period

OFFTOPIC about game balance just for drizzto * feel free to skip*
i have 1 simple principle for myself, i dont talk economics a lot since i studied it and never expect people to understand economics&marketing. and actually i shouldnt be talking about game balancing and testing too, but i am a guy hardly hold myself to explain and try to help peopledoubt i am achieving that w/e, love reading a lot and my hunger for learning never stops etc etc.

but lemme clarify you 1 thing, crucible is 5 dollari guess add on to main GD… not every1 has 5 bucks or has to spend it for crucible add on. or not every1 has to fan of it or enjoy playing it. for companies like this their first priority is always $25 bucks GD, then crucible…
and most players has GD, but not every1 has crucible. etc i hope you got my point, crucible is OPTIONAL to main content

a) this is kinda main reason, these kind of games generally balance&tweak&nerf&balance around main content aka GD, not crucible

thats part of economics and marketing, it doesnt mean that crate doesnt care crucible but priority will be always main GD… for make it simple,
bigger communitymarket&customer = bigger money = bigger money equals first priorityam i fucking einstein or someshit lol

ok balance part, no you dont balance game around crucible performances or issues, you simply fix crucible first if problem is that, last thing to do is nerfing items and skill itself, glitches abuses and cheeze methods etc

a) also you dont balance game around fully set + nearly GG MI + bis rings etc chars. again crucible is diff story, even tho mobs are super weak there compare to main content+you have buffs. its super clear that, that char is designed to that with that amount of gear… and 22mins crucible clear is not in crates nerf list imo… lol its just a simple good performance nothing more than that…

you remember 1 pet build got nerfed after 3mins or someshit mogdrogen kill :smiley: here you go, you nerf hammer that cause it simply not meant to be killed around that times. it means there is something fucked up…

and i watched many youtube videos of crucible guys, and i clearly didnt see some1 fucking breaking and rocking rolling it absurdly…

ps: ya i am liar… this is fucking huge/giant wall of text… hell yeah

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Dear Lord:rolleyes: