V1.1.4.1 Item Tuning

Bloodied crystals are kinda fine now imo, but I do like the idea of reducing %armor by 1-2% and increasing bleed res to 15%.

I bet you don’t play cRPG’s then or strategy games…

Pet and retaliation builds have still elements of action. Debuffing, positioning etc

@medea_fleecestealer perhaps you could remove this discussion to a new thread? :stuck_out_tongue:

If you wanna hard smash buttons 24/7 you should play a fighting / beat’em up game instead.

The implication here that pet builds and retal builds do actually nothing. Pet builds have to manage pets like looking after their health, using buffs at the right time, looking where the pets are currently. You don’t win with pets by literally doing nothing.

The same for retal builds. You have to manage buffs, your position at all times, and there’s also the fact retal doesn’t work on ranged builds. They do have retal to attack to deal with those enemy types, but at that point you are the one manually attacking them, so it becomes an active role.

Will the release of the 5th dungeon have any impact on The Vanquisher set?

That aside, would be great if Inquisitor or Demolitionist was supported by this set. These two masteries don’t get as much benefit from targeted farming as the others.

Edit: Whoops… actually meant to put this in Rigg’s Request. Oh well

About DawnBreaker set…
I believe this set lacks some stats, concidering it’s an original set (from base game) it feels like it didn’t age well.

The main aspect from this set is the 21% retal dmg to savagery (while it’s nothing amazing here, it’s the biggest bonus this whole set gives), but the rest is really lack-luster.

The whole set is about lightning retaliation and lightning damage, yet it only adds 87% (average) to lightning damage. That’s…quite little and when building around that lightning, you reall see the lack of damage. Even the overall retaliation bonus (average 410%) isn’t quite astonashing.
The resists aren’t amazing aswell.

IMO, at least giving this set % lightning damage to all parts (mace/shield and amulet) would greatly aid it’s lack of damage.
Also, concidering physical resistance as an important resist to stack, getting something like 10-15% from overall set wouldn’t hurt (it gives 0 and many shields give upto 10 to 15% alone).

Quite frankly, seeing some physical retal Warlords stacking 3k%+ to all retal damage with 400k+ total retal damage, I don’t think helping a bit this set will hurt and make DawnBreaker unbalanced at all, but only bring it slightly on-part with the rest of the retaliation builds.


Disagree with nerfs, is better to change the conversion on the invokers amulet to 50 aether to fire and 50 aether to lighting. My MageHunter in previus patch to be cruciable by ~7 min, now most likely slower.

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Btw if you reduce damage on Panetti wand you will hurt already underperforming cold PRM, which already is worse than lightning and fire, even aether. Need to check again, but please don’t nerf the wand!

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There is no need for nerfing Trozan now. It’s strong, but has very strong dependency on mutatros, my clear time varies from 6m to 7:30
Right now Trozan Warlock is where it’s supposed to be.
Druid is weaker due to not having SoC life leech
I haven’t tried Conjurer yet.

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And worth mentioning not all variants of a set’s build have to have same clear time. For 3 class sets only two combos need to work even.

Trozan seems alright at the moment. How safe is it?

Actually I would say that Trozan warlock is very good. It’s a glass canon with little defence as casters should be.

I beg for mercy with Necromancer and little skeleton. They are very weak. Using them at the veteran level becomes too difficult to challenge for newbies. I think each skill of every profession has different significance. But now I think you hate Skeleton :joy:

Why would you want to nerf (PRM) just a decent build? For the sake of nerfing?

It is not overperforming, even pre-patch it struggled greatly to do SR 75-76 and probably now its not going to be possible at all.

It is a squishy caster and thus excels *as it should by core design concept in a game mode like Crucible.

Also as otheres have pointed - touching any of the invokers items or the wand will impact all type of PRM builds.
But again - you are basing your thesis on a perfect run done by a perfect player with a perfectly min max character. You do realise that for 90+% of the players who play this build, their results will be different with at least 20%+ margin due to above stated reasons.

Instead, lets put attention on items which need a tweak - my proposal is to review:

  1. Nex & Ortus to make them focused on Fire Saboteur instead of Cold. Fire currently doesnt have any good DW options, while you have plenty strong Cold DW ones.

  2. https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/12392 - reverse the conversion to be from Cold to Fire instead to support such a build

  3. https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/11373 - Increase the Pierce > Fire conversion to 50%; add additional Cold > Fire conversion; add 50-60 DA/OA; add some resists; add +3 to Fire strike and +3 to dual blades.

  4. Rahzin set - add Energy regen somewhere; add an AoE proc - the set has decent single target dmg however it really struggles in the AoE department. Some kind of a Chaos nova proc would be decent.

  5. Ultos set - add %dmg returned as Health on the Axe/Head to Primal Strike. Despite all the buffs to Primal strike, the lightining version is mediocre due to inability to sustain properly. You cannot rely just on totems for SR. That would put it in line with the new Vitality counterpart /Rotgeist % health leech which was just bumped to nice 8%.

Pulling off a chinese retirement here :grin:


Fire DW isn’t an easy concept. Fire devotions isn’t suited for melee at all, especially now that Flame torrent was mega nerfed. That’s the biggest weakness. You need to make N&O bonkers again to make fire DW work. Not saying I disagree, but Crate needs to be careful here.

Corruption of Gargabol

Add % Total Speed

Add Modificator on Fervor 100% Physical to Vitality

-10% Fire Resistance to Some Demo Skill
-20% Vitality Resistance to Some Demo Skill

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Nex and Ortus full fire? That’s gonna suck big time. Fire is mega resistant by mobs and Nightblade don’t have source of fire RR. Furthermore Cold DW is the ONLY working Saboteur, so you will completely kill already gimmick class.

Ultos is bad in SR? John Smith did like SR 85 or so. Ultos is better in Crucible, but in SR with high CDR you can use defensive procs.

I agree, by and large. I’m just laying out eventualities in case others don’t.

To reiterate my experience: Druid isn’t very safe at all due to modest healing and physical resistance, but is sufficiently kiting-friendly to let you avoid trouble most of the time. When you do end up in trouble you have very few tools unless you build around them (e.g. Ghoul, Aeon + MoE).

Warlock is safe-ish, but has a very small health pool: when things go wrong he just pops. My setup, which is on the aggressive side, died three times in nine Crucible runs (10k health with high rolls, 3.1k DA and 3b + vb): one death was mostly accidental (the spell queue skipped MoE), but in the other two cases my entire health bar was blotted out instantly, respectively by Kymon at close range and Rashalga at medium range. I imagine it’d be worse in SR 75, considering that e.g. Crucible Reaper can already slap me for 9k of damage in one hit.

Clear times with Druid seem slightly but consistently better than Warlock, which is a fair deal.

Still trying to make elemental retaliation build, but even after buff of “Mythical Turrion’s Reprisal” by adding 12% retaliation damage to Blackwater Cocktail it still has smooth small damage, even on 200-300k elemental damage (with all procs for short period) in total it has about 20-30k of damage for 5seconds, and that’s too small.

For example you give 50% retaliation damage to Dreeg’s Evil Eye on Mythical Bramblevine and it does in 4 times more damage.
Also we have transmute +400% retaliation damage to Mirror of Ereoctes (on mythical Avatar of Order) that supports Elemental Retaliation builds, because skill itself has also nice bonuses to flat elemental retaliation, but skill can be active only 3 seconds, and that’s almost nothing to damage boost. Can you make transmute for mirror to make it offensive skill?

I have purpose to do few things to support Elemental Retaliation Builds:

  1. add about 33% retaliation damage to Blackwater Cocktail (to shield)
  2. transmute to Mirror of Ereoctess -70% damage absorbtion -85% skill recharge time +6 sec duration (for example)

Also I would like to see minor buffs to Dawnseeker’s Light (set) it has nice damage but requires more defense, a bit squishy, just a little more physical resist, bonuses to shield, OA…

With the recent sweeping change to a lot of MIs (exclusively buffs at a glance) I’m curious about the design intent for MI changes moving forward. Will helmets and necklaces be considered for +1 mastery bonuses since it has been deemed acceptable for MI belts to gain this bonus in order to have a hope of competing for usefulness with the existing legendary options? Also, previous patches saw the rare nerfing/downtuning of MIs when they were tied to a skill that was getting restructured. What can we expect in terms of red “this will be nerfed” lines for MIs that should be brought up for balance discussions?