I know. But right now it’s either “post detailed previews, get a lot of bitching and drama” or “don’t post detailed previews, no drama till patch”. It’s ultimately your choice and I do think you got used to the pre patch toxicity here already.
Totally agree. There is this talk floating in these places that the new sets are gonna be crap and while I might agree, every conventional playstyle has their own sets already. We don’t need another dark one. What I’m agreeing with when it comes to the bitching is really just that the sets feel incomplete, starting with the phys res. I know, numbers not yet final stuff and stuff. And I know you released stuff like Noctirn, but then you guys also released stuff like Voidsoul and Rotgheist, which existed for a few patches already and I’ve never seen anyone be satisfied with those two sets. Also, incoming “changes are coming for these two sets” but I’m talking about current patch as these two are currently in the game and they suck.
It’s fine to make sets that support unusual playstyles, and I love that you’re making them. I already love the concept of the vindictive flame one and the bleed paladin one (no matter how many people meme that bleed set). But sets such as these need more things to be playable compared to you usual cookie cutters, especially since these sets won’t have many complementary non set items that can fit since the sets support an unusual playstyle.
Honestly, what I’d love to see is a set that just screams PALADIIIIIN!!! Cause currently the only one that does that is Octavius (and even then it screams warlord more than paladin. The new set also screams tactician more than Paladin) and that’s probably the paladin aspect that needs the least amount of changes.
Anyway, honest suggestion. Please do change the conversion on the bleed set from Fire>Pierce to Elemental>Pierce. Just cap it off at two items instead of three. We don’t need another build that uses pack of treacherous means + bladetwister signet just because there’s no other way to convert that word of pain
Since the GM dropped, discussion around this has subsided a little and I’ve really had time to think about it again. I do want to talk about this and leave my 2 cents as there has been criticism on both sides over it.
Starting off, I’m gonna do my best to detail what I think is the core problem - physical resistance on sets is one of the stats that gets tossed around by a subset of players (I’m not pointing any fingers specifically) as a must-have stat whenever a set lacks it and the masteries a set supports don’t have convenient access to it (heck, some sets with easy access to it like Dreeg’s set/Deathmarked have a chunk).
Now I’m not exactly blaming those players either if high physical resistance is a requirement or want to really push difficult content like Celestials reliably or SR75+ and beyond reliably as examples even though both are areas of the game that weren’t initially made with the majority of all builds completing in mind - I can look past that for the purposes of this post and playing devil’s advocate.
The issue the side arguing takes with it is that it’s frankly just boring shoving the same stat of physical resistance on 60 or 70% of Legendary sets available. At that point you may as well just give the player a baseline of 10-15% physical resistance and make it scarcer on the current sets/items not that I expect this happen this far in to development, it’s part of the point I want to make - physical resistance is prevalent on so many items and sets nowadays because of it’s reliance that it’s value has sunk now that it’s expected that end game builds get it relatively easily instead of having to search out and build for it.
Instead, like Norzan pointed out, I’m a believer that it is always better to see more creative and alternative approaches to defense applied which I agree is a valid criticism here if some of the sets lack any form of defense at all. But for the love of Dreeg can we see some more shake-ups in that area like how Ember’s set gives ADCtH to Vindictive Flame? I’m excited to see what that’ll be like with some flat CDR and damage mods like 1-2 Ascendant Conduits.
I don’t disagree. What the sets really need is some form of defense, and phys res isn’t necessarily what it should be. It’s just the first thing that comes to mind, but I’m not convinced with the VF lifesteal alone. Lifesteal doesn’t stop 1shots, but it’s very welcome.
VF lifesteal is a bit unique in the sense that it’s passive lifesteal, which is extremely rare (Blood Knight mod to counter strike is the only other one I can think of). It works when you’re stunned and doesn’t require anything to be cast beforehand. It also incentivizes leveling VF, which is generally a skill that people don’t invest heavily in.
It remains to be seen if the set needs more defenses beyond this, but I’m absolutely in love with the VF concept so far.
In addition, I feel that some of this is on the player in the sense that it is a riddle that we should be solving (in terms of finding a way for enough phys res or defenses) in order to make it viable.
Now a bit of the ways back @mad_lee made a really good post involving Radaggans which I could totally see where he was coming from and it had the “science” to back up the change in terms of sustain. It was changed.
But here, in this situation, as I mentioned an “oracle” argument taken in a very tight vacuum of not knowing anything else other then the stats on 12 pieces of gear across 3 sets.
Now if the patch lands and people prove that their arguments in this thread or anywhere else regarding these sets is true…well I’ll shut my mouth and apologize.
But I really think the existing tools will keep you safe defensive wise but that will always come with the “symptom” of making compromises in personal build habits and not being able to push the boundaries of content that the individual player may want…which I might point out that may be moot since we don’t know what changes are occurring other then boss rooms (for SR at least).
Now the above sentiment of a set “screaming” Paladin…yeah I agree with this 100%. I do want a good paladin fire type set that doesn’t fell so piece meal. The other issue (personal) I also see with it is the amount of phys to fire conversion to judgment on all the pieces that end up over lapping.
Oh a much better perspective would be to look at this in the following way: if CR and SR didn’t exist and these dropped in MC, would anyone be defining it as “meme”? Likely but the measuring stick would be something else like lox, lok or something else which is much easier to build for then 5 min CR and 80+ SR. That’s what the past has shown at least.
Before the “Virtue is Paladin” people come here, while Virtue and Paladin does match theme-wise, gameplay-wise virtue does nothing with inquisitors and therefore it is much better with Sentinel or Shieldbreaker which doesn’t require you to skip Divine Mandate. The only real Paladin set right now is Octavius, and Paladin doesn’t really have much physical synergy.
If I’m going to bitch about the new sets, this thread is as good of a place to do it as any:
Regarding the Ember Set:
Not only is there no %Phys. Resistance, there’s no Slow resistance or tertiary resistances of any kind. If you’re trying to play either melee or caster, tertiary resistances are at least as important as Physical resistance, and considering neither Demo nor Nightblade are known for their resistances, the primary resistances could use a buff as well.
I hope the devs are looking at the pool of Elemental + Fire gear available, as the only gear that benefits that damage type + Occultist skills are blocked by the set itself. Considering DEE is a 4-node skill, it’s a huge investment with not much being given in terms of skill bonuses.
The set blocks both the medal as well as the head slot, so there’s practically no chance of playing DW Fire Strike Melee except if you’re playing it with Nightblade (no DW Pryos allowed for this set).
Regarding Goredrinker’s Set:
I’m betting anything the Fire to Piercing was so that we’d forget about the Nadaan’s Sword where the Elemental to Piercing conversion was changed into… whatever you want to call it.
It’d be nice to see more points to the WoP line that isn’t Death Sentence. It’s very hard to get points in Word of Agony and the best options we have are also blocked by the set.
Regarding Veilkeeper’s Set:
The Shaman side is all sorts of WTF: you have 9 bonus points to Upheaval and 0 points to anything else (outside the standard +1 to Shaman skills). Why not -Aether RR to Wind Devil for more synergy with the Aether Wind Devil off-hand? Casters would kill to have that sort of regen.
What’s with the forced double types (Aether + Lightning) for WPS skills? Especially as both Shaman & Arcanist have MI belts that convert 50% of Vitality to Lightning or Aether, respectively.
It doesn’t look like you can do anything cool with the Cold to Aether conversion, at least devotion wise (maybe Aether Blizzard proc, but that’s it)? Same as with Fire to Piercing, what’s the point of conversions if the only purpose of them is either more flat or converting a skill or two?
I’m sure I’m going to be wowed by the patch notes, but I’d like to at least get these complaints out there.
I think the idea of the set is to simply ignore the last 2 nodes since it only boosts the first 2, and adds an insane 33% damage boost, perhaps an hint as to focus on weapon damage and DoT, and to mix other skills with the skill points you save (like canister, since the weapons and amulet are free)
The fire conversion could be used to convert Light of Empyrion, but it’s extremely gimmicky and damage reduction is easily accessed by 2 supported masteries of the set
Honestly just ask for 100% ele>pierce on WoP, the point of the fire>pierce on the set is to skip the usual and boring global ele>pierce gear pieces, and total conversion for a weak skill on a full set is far from OP.
Actually on the matter of phys resist; Ember’s Calling is luckier since 2/3 of supported classes has phys resistance. In other two sets it’s 1/3 so when you choose to make a build with 2 classes doesn’t have phys resist you will be damned to get one-shotted. With Sabo it surely be a problem yes but if you’re making a proper DW Sabo build skill bonusses or modifiers on FS line is more important than phys resist and this set doesn’t give any points to those skills but atleast helmets gives +1 to both classes.
I actually want some Fire WPS modifier support instead of FS modifiers that everyone else wants. Fire AQC or Belgothian Shears or maybe even Execution.
DW Fire Pyro doesn’t need this set, 2x Blazeheart + 3 Piece Justicar + Obsidian Grasp is more than enough to get a decent result, just fill the blanks.
The entire point of the set is auto-attacking, nothing about it says or screams “caster”. There’s nothing stopping someone using it or pieces of it on a caster but I wouldn’t expect it to synergize with or hint at/be designed to synergize with items like Scion of Celestial Portents.
No strong feelings one way or another to the set getting Aether RR on Wind Devil/in Shaman somewhere. Would be nice but I don’t think it’s required.
I’m willing to bet it’s so Aether and Lightning builds get some use out of the WPS. I can see possibilities for both sides working with the set instead of it leaning to one side or the other.
Soul Harvest becomes an easy source of flat Aether. If going Spellbinder, slapping on a Chains of Ygaad for 50% Vitality->Aether conversion makes it sweeter.
Again echoing the above: it’s a set for auto-attacking and WPS, flat damage is primary to it. Maybe someone could do something interesting with the conversion elsewhere but that isn’t the reason that it’s been included.
Definitely +1 to buffing early game Item granted Pets. And glad to see them getting attention.
I would echo @iOnlyPlayPetBuilds’s statement regarding the good old Ghost Crab from Hysteria too, as it is on a similar level compared to Savage relic’s Hound.
Also, definitely happy to hear Blightshard getting some love
It’s a set where a big benefit is extended time on Arcane Will (and its good All Damage% Bonus), huge health regen, the resists are fairly good on the set, and - most importantly - keeps both weapon slots & the amulet slot open. There a lot you can do assuming you can get enough synergy with the above.
As already mentioned above, there already is a set for auto-attacking Shamans with huge Health regen: it’s called Avenger’s. Besides, if you’re going to take the Shaman route, you have to place points in roughly 14 skills (more than Avengers since you have to use Wind Devil for the Lightning RR); obviously some skills can be used as a one-pointer (Wind Devil sans Raging Tempest), but without additional Shaman points, you’re going to hog up your entire pool before worrying about the other class.
Except options to convert Vitality to either Aether or Lightning are available to those who want to work either option. The forced double conversion just makes it a lot harder to synergize if you want to work with just one of those types; especially if you have other conversion options available and only want to use 1 or two of the set pieces.
As for the conversion options, conversion is a lot cooler when you can convert either high-level devotions or item procs to add that special flavor to your build. Without that, there’s not much reason to use the set outside of its intended purpose. That’s the difference between a dull set and one like Bonemonger’s which had opened up a huge amount of possibilities for both Aether and Elemental damage.
What are you talking about? The build I linked was my build. I know what the weapon had. The thread you linked had me commenting on it. It was never about Nadaan changing conversions. I’m pretty sure about it. I can’t just
very well put.
