Seconded. Even though the relic stats themselves may suit a build well, I have yet to find any of these actives useful on any build. On my Pyromancer, a hit from Fire Strike just slightly worse than Blazing Eruption, considering the AoE + Brimstone. If it were a long-distance spell maybe something like a BWC Sorcerer could slot this in among the BWC spam, but given that it’s an attack, a % proc would be much more appealing. Just give these the Annihilation treatment. I’d even throw in Doomforce as well, though probably as a “when hit” rather than “on attack” proc.
Your memory is probably blurry cause the community both asked for buffs on other classes while also asking for censure nerfs.
Member demo being shit outside of bwc? (And ranged fs when inq wps was broken) people cried and now we got strong canister, mortars, even stun jacks can be good when built properly.
Member AAR hitting only single target and people hated it so much? Now AAR is one of the strongest skills in the game. Member when ill omen was utter shit? Now it’s great. We had blade spirits getting reworked (and still better than during aom despite recent nerfs), pox getting more support, retal becoming a viable (and op) playstyle which automatically meant soldier buffs.
The three masteries that got worse since the time inq was op was imo Shaman with devil and totem both not as good as before , tho 2h is still very strong; Oathkeeper which is okay since new classes tend to be overtuned on release, and then inquisitor with almost every aspect of it nerfed especially on the elemental side.
I support censure buffs on the rr side for next patch because it’s probably the easiest way to blanket buff all elemental inquisitors without making a huge changelog. It’s become clear overtime that Crate doesn’t wanna reduce RoH penalty (i know it’s still strong), or get back old storm box. Meanwhile RoK still isn’t up to par by itself, WPS inq is outperformed by its pierce counterpart, and WoP is more of a pierce skill than an elemental skill. Censure buff brings all those skills up while also not making WoP stronger on pierce than it already is.
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Censure’s main selling point was always DR on top of RR.
It was always possible to make a top build with only one RR skill in masteries if the synergy is there because ~35% (mastery) + 32% flat (Ele Storm) + 35% (devotion+items) + *20% (Viper/Ultos mutiplier) was enough to break the resistance of any enemy to sub 0 where you start having decreasing returns on additional RR.
That’s why you can’t just put together a random cold Infiltrator / fire Paladin with huge RR and roll over everything. You have to have stacked dmg sources from synergetic items.
So back to the point. DR was always a very rare stat. With Censure you could strip a lot of layers of defense for offense and still do fine.
Now DR is much easier to find. The most basic medal component has 10% DR on it.
Cold Infiltrator has DR in devotions and common meta items.
Demolitionist has superior DR for free.
Other Masteries like Shaman, Arcanist or Oathkeeper, have to pass on a huge chunk of dmg and crit/cdr to get Censure which only gives you more value against the most resistant enemies.
For every double RR class the last mob resistances adjustment nerfed Censure relative value immensely.
Censure needs a buff.
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Mhm. Every Vindicator and Mage Hunter uses it over their own exlusives -> Censure needs a buff. Right. If anything, I’d buff damage scaling on it past softcap and nothing more.
Reckless Power, on the other hand, is the weakest exclusive there is. Its highlight is not resistance or damage reduction, but fire retaliation.
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so, it could sound like an argument back in the golden days of Vindicators etc but what we have now?
- first of all, taking Censure means that you lose a ton of %damage, crit, cdr etc, and those stats are rather important for every build, CDR is very important for casters.
- Mage Hunters now, according to GrimSheet - are just a mediocre class, and this looks like truth, as they’re almost always PRM/AAR builds made for Crucible. I haven’t seen any of them in deep SR for ages. Not saying it’s impossible but other caster classes are better for it, for dealing with superbosses etc.
- Vindicators … not many of them are seen in modern days. Actually, Vindi is a lightning build with LD/maaaaaaybe Allagast (though the latter is crap). So, it looks more like variations of a single build.
And golden days of lightning have long gone.
Censure is weak now compared to other Exclusive skills. Very mediocre DR (only 5% higher than Loadstone’s one), RR like of VoS but for the cost of 50 skill points and Exc. Skill and … that’s all actually. Chance of disrupting enemies - dunno how good it is. Fire/Burn damage is very low and makes little sense outside of some thematic stuff, maybe.
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The thing is, you’re gonna take Censure anyway on cold Infiltrator, Purifier, elemental Tactician and Deceiver if there’s any, and, of course, elemental Mage Hunters because how else you’d get RR.
It’s not like with physical Warlord where you choose from 2-3 exclusives depending on what you want more. Or Druid. Or Oppressor. Et cetera.
So like I said, you won’t pick Conviction on cold Infiltrator, would you? You’ll take Censure anyway for RR, while also getting DR. And it seems people forget that this stuff is active at all times and affects ALL enemies in range, i.e. where it is needed the most.
Like, DR from War Cry is higher because it needs to be casted and has 66% uptime. DR from Yugol puddles activate when struck and have limited AoE. DR from Ulzuin’s Wraith is just an additional perk of the skill on which you can’t really rely on, same as Ravneous Earth’s one. You get the idea.
Feels like I’m the only one who uses Stormcaller’s on Vindicator, heh. Yeah, it’s LD one, but at first it was Ludrigan. Man, this guy was made of paper thin glass. And of course I’m not breaking any records, and have no clue how it would fare with Censure instead of Stormcaller’s.
But looking at these builds [1.1.8.1] Light's Defender Vindicator ( 5:30 Crucible, SR 95, Crate, Callagadra, Ravager of Minds) and [1.1.8.1] Totems of strength! Light Defender Vindicator I would say they do alright. But then again, they also use Wendigo Totem and Twin Fangs on top, which is also a staple of how you build a Vindicator, right?
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Personally I would find it far more interesting if scourge strike was reworked into an auto attack replacer that required a 2handed weapon to prevent some run away build with death marked set ( or perhaps balanced around the fact it exists) We have a great relic for casting filler in Oblivion and a great spin relic in Yugol, but we don’t have a quality AA replacer. Or perhaps a high level mistborn talisman instead
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The Arcaneweaver comparison is ridiculous imo. That green weapon is pretty much impossible to get ever (unless GD stashed obviously). Comparing a double pierce rare affixes on a elemental base weapon is like comparing a build with full legendaries to comparing a build that only uses yellows imo. I see no issue with perfect triple rares performing better than legendary sets, that’s how it should be imo.
Silver Bolt on the other hand might be a little strong compared to full Valdun… or full Valdun a little weak.
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Thar’s an +1 from me. An AA specified for 2H’s is a great idea. DW builds can do some things with Beronath but you can’t literally use beronath in a 2H build, it’s too weak for that.
The relic ia specific for cold/vitality damage ans both damage types are suck as auto attacker 2H melee.
Definitely a great idea! +1
Agreed. Would do wonders for 2-H cold/vitality Reaper.
There’s desolator version tho which isn’t far behind. The arcaneweaver one was really just made to put another pseudo on the name.
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Yes, 2H cold is not exist outside of Bane of The Winter King Trickster(excluding Soulrend SS/BH) and 2H Vitality Melee is just Bone Harvest Hybrid or WB hybrid.
They might make it like Cadence without diminishing WD and Flat damages, that way it won’t be OP (or I guess it has to be charged AA replacer on relic?)
But it feels like a long shot.
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So basically you are saying it isnt a ground of nerfing :pepethink:
I just meant that a build with triple rare MI with affixes that the game’s smart loot will basically never drop should not be part of any nerf/buff discussion. All other comparisons like with silver bolt or desolator are totally legit imo.
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Honestly that kinda puts the “smart” in smart loot in question. Sure, if you’re going a very predictable build route smart loot is very useful, but then you try doing something even a little bit “off” and suddenly…Groble Sky Effigies crackle with lightning affixes for your Vit transmuter build, Colossal Fortresses keep rolling Phys Retal on a Commando shield…
A tangent, I know, but sometimes I wonder if smart loot isn’t a little too restrictive.
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Seems whats in focus in regards to this issue is not a buff/nerf to any particular item, but rather the criteria by which “smart loot” functions. Is that what you’re saying?
Well, considering how the game thrives on all sorts of damage conversions, through conduits, sets, individual items, it seems to me that smart loot kinda runs in the face of that by promoting straightforward “fire weapon + fire affixes” sort of itemisation. I just thought I’d throw it out there while we were touching on the subject. Maybe smart loot could use with a bit of a broader approach. But honestly, that would probably be a TON of work and I’d rather the attention go to promoting some of the undersupported playstyles discussed above.
would it be terrible if Deathdealer’s Sidearm/Myth Deathdealer granted dual wield ability along with its wps ? (like other similar pistols) 
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Smart loot isn’t an issue tho. The arcaneweaver there was specifically gdstashed for the memes. If ever you really wanna build pierce arcaneweaver legit why not just go desolator and have almost the same results? If you still really wanna go for it just for the sake of building it then should Crate really alter smart loot to cater for that one guy who wants to use a very specific unorthodox affix combo? How about the people.who still complain about droprates even when smart loot is already around?
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