V1.1.9.2 Discussion

[arivus]

Can something be done for Corruptian? Too many inconsistency in 1 item, part of it convert DEE from physical to acid while also convert acid to physical for RE. Even Cabalist can only utilize 1 part of it on a build despite the item specifically support said mastery. Item already have cdr which is nice but the attack speed there is totally weird as it’s not even look like weapon that acid/physical AA build uses.

I think it’s better to drop the DEE support and give mod for physical to acid on aegis of menhir, so acid aegis have other weapon option than Ravna claw.

[Willnoword]

Or change conversion to Vitality-to-Physical for DEE for consistent Acid+Physical theme of the weapon. But it does not follow Crate’s grand vision, it seems . Attack speed is just for trolling, like Massacre axe with armor piercing.

[medea_fleecestealer]

A post was split to a new topic: Crucible v1.1.9.1 change not working

[nofika4u]

Can Namadea’s Horns get some Arcanist support?
Spellbreaker was my first character and I always had a soft spot for the class, however I find it very challenging to make good builds with its single -RR and squishyness.
Working on this https://www.grimtools.com/calc/wV1OJXwN
Build has good damage but as usual with my Spellbreaker-attempts its very low on phys res and health. Strong Spellbreaker builds are scarce and helms are a very contested itemslot so I dont think it would break the game.

Anyway, always happy with new patches and continued support of this game!

[Valkinaz]

Oh man, I only now understood that there is no way to convert bleed into any other dot damage type. Since bleed is not physical nor pierce counterpart, neither physical nor pierce targeting convertions affect it. So you can neither convert dot damage to bleed nor convert bleed to any dot damage. This essentially make all bleed points on skills like savagery pretty much irrelevant on non bleed builds

[fordprefect]

I’ve decided to give it a shot to Ember’s Calling again but with Chaos Saboteur this time;

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/4VxRMKvN here is the build.

The main problem is obviously defense. Damage is quite good, I get good amount of sustain with GG and Bat despite of %7 Adcth and Vindictive Flame also helps a bit but as long as your circuit breakers on CD you’re dead as good or run for your life. Which is a bit weird since this is a melee build, not a hit&run.

Low armor, low physical resist and even with my efforts low health is the biggest problem. I used Aleksander’s Chausses just for it’s health bonus and without that it’s just a bit higher than 10k. Resistance overcaps also a bit hard to get.

Possible Solutions?

• DA is already high and build has good OA shred so I think third set bonus can be replaced with %10-15 health instead %6 DA. OA should stay though it can be fixed with cunning dump, problem is physique stats is needed to keep health high.

• Increase the value of pierce and chaos resistance on the shoulder.

• Some physical resist on the set. I’m aware all pieces are already filled up but it’s really needed.

What build can do? I did some 75-76, you die in the chunks if you play reckless. Hard to finish without dying especially with bad mutators. Boss rooms are easier since you can wait for your cooldowns till you move on to the next boss nevertheless it’s not likely to proceed further than 80 with these defenses.
My previous SR set Chaos Sabo was doing better than this despite the lower damage potential.
Saboteurs are skill point hungry, defenseless, healthless class and any set center upon this combination should provide these to become an end-game archetype.

PS: Not sure about it’s crucible potential. Afaik @afanasenkov26 was testing his own version of it and expressing it’s lack of sustain and health aswell.

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

DA is already high and build has good OA shred so I think third set bonus can be replaced with %10-15 health instead %6 DA.
OA should stay though it can be fixed with cunning dump, problem is physique stats is needed to keep health high

i don’t think 15% health is enough, nor do i necessarily think removing the DA is a good idea as it would just “punish” non-sabo ember’s calling toons that don’t default get 3k DA
and even considering touching the OA in favor of a potential cunning dump would be, pardon me, kinda insane, as you’ll desperately want either physique or spirit to make up for the low bonus dmg gained in a chaos effort with NB - when then is even more needed when not going sabo/infil/purifier with dual RR.

Ember’s calling have a fair few decent uses outside of a run-of-the-mill AA chaos sabo, and i think it’d be fair to consider the sets stats for that utilization too, where ex NB brings the mono mastery RR now

suppose what i’m saying is, please be careful in the consideration of tweaking the sets stat for just 1 approach

and i’m totally not just saying that because i don’t wanna redo my chaos EoR Dervish etc

[fordprefect]

suppose what i’m saying is, please be careful in the consideration of tweaking the sets stat for just 1 approach

Yes you’re right. I don’t play caster or other archetypes so I don’t know if chaos/fire DEE WH/Pyro needs or Purifier Vindictive Flame with set requires.

But While I’m providing feedbacks, I also consider that the devs will not just give what I need but they consider all the aspects and other possibilities I couldn’t think of and decide then. I also expect other players would argue with me if I’m mistaken or missing a point just as you do.

All I did with the Ember’s Calling set was DW Fire and Chaos Saboteur. Both lack defense and most importantly health. So my instinct is to change some not that important stat like DA with health but as you said it might disrupt other builds that use the set. Let’s keep everything and add some health? Or maybe having Sabo class on this level is okay for everyone so no need for any buff.

[XandeRoot]

I’m feeling grumpy today, so sorry about that. Now, that change to Voidsteel Gauntlets (RF mod being swapped with Cadence mod) kinda punished chaos Sentinel for no good reason? I’m not even talking about conversion and +2 to Possession loss, but about resists swap. So basically, Voidrend Talons have elemental and aether res, which are more desirable on chaos builds, bud Voidsteel Gauntlets provide acid and chaos res? How’s that fair?

First reason is it’s strictly a Sentinel and Deceiver item now - and guess what - Occultist already has both resistances from skills. You also get chaos res from Inquisitor.

Second reason, we also get acid and chaos res from constellations: Fiend has chaos, Abomination has acid, Dying God - chaos.

I understand this logic comes back from Titan Quest where fire item = fire res, vitality item = vitality res, etc., but should this also apply to GD though?

So why am I going ape shit now? Because instead of useful resists chaos Sentinel received useless ones. To give more context to my rambling, I’m talking about this build of mine:

[1.1.9.1] Me-e-estah Crowley - S&B Melee Chaos Sentinel

Tired of dual-wield and two-handed melee combat? Want something durable but retaliation feels like a snail ride? Boy, have I got just a remedy for you, then. At first I considered such a build a meme material, but it turned out really good. It was pure delight for me to play with this character. Be warned, though, as this build requires one/two green MI items and one Legendary MI, and a lot of other items are pretty much set in stone. Now to the build itself. [Grim%20Dawn_2021_02_07_19_18_15…

Plese note how acid has 85+% acid overcap, chaos has 60+% overcap. The only reason I’m doing alright on aether is I got lucky on my Conduit resistance roll, otherwise I would barely had it capped. Why is this a problem? Well, because there exist some rather dangerous aether enemies like Anasteria and Alexander (and I died to Alex on SR 75 because I failed to dodge his meteor - was frozen or petrified or something). Had a close call with Anasteria as well.

What’s my proposal? Change acid or chaos res on Voidsteel Gauntlets to aether res. Or some CC res because this build has to rely on affixes and crafting bonuses to get them. Stun, Slow, Freeze or maybe even Petrify will do.

Simply not fair ho Voidrend Talons got everything and Voidsteel Gauntlets got some useless Smite mod. This build is almost like a baby of mine and as such it’s very dear to me, so sorry if I said something wrong or unjust.

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

add some health?

this
i feel like when comparing it it’s against Rah’zin WH, where you end up with the “same” low stats, but have the benefit of a crap ton more phys res, free absorb + ADCtH, better direct tailored points etc etc etc so it just feels less squishy
Ember’s AA sabo don’t get that, at best you get a bit OA shred and dmg reduct, both which Rah’zin WH has access to too
Phys res mod for VF/PB is on slot conflicting item, so that’s out the window, aint no way you’re getting 15-20%absorb either, meanwhile you’re point starved to get around so it becomes a question of going “halfsies” on everything, and somehow leaving VF sustain up to making up for the difference as you’re melee’ing away, while crossing your fingers Blast Shield covers your butt if it doesn’t?
Doesn’t really make sense

perhaps baking a flat HP mod into VF, or something, on the set bonus could help a little?
heck i’d be glad to even take a little phys res to a Demo mod ala Namada, not exactly like chaos devos are packed with it, and aside from fudging some green legs you aint got many slots leftover either to get scraping by in mid 20s…

or maybe the set isn’t even intended for melee AA chaos sabo and it’s a giant “gotcha”? @_@, considering banana’s fire VF sabo did fine

[thepowerofmediocrity]

Since the thread will close in 2 days, I will simply emphasize my request to halve - if not outright remove - Reaper’s Nemesis passive:

Passive effect that can trigger on attack
9% Chance to be Used
4 Second Skill Recharge
10% Weapon Damage
510 Physical Damage
486 Vitality Damage
15% Reduction to Enemy’s Health
670 Bleeding Damage over 2 Seconds
425 Reduced target’s Defensive Ability for 3 Seconds
40 Reduced target’s Resistances for 5 Seconds

Reaper’s Nova already has flat RR applied to it, and the Wraiths he spawn give stackable RR as well. Casters can just kite him and avoid getting hit enough to avoid the worst effects, so this passive just hurts melee. Melee already has it rough with Grava’s Damage Reduction Fumble Pools and Kuba’s stacking heals, it doesn’t need massive damage spikes in addition to it. It just adds unnecessary RNG that can kill a character soon after the 40 RR applies.

[tippytam]

I wonder why Viper’s RR is locked on elemental damage while this is the earliest attainable RR and might be introductory to some, this should be universal.

Since this is the weakest type of RR, every damage type should benefit from it early on.

[Mahjers]

it would be good is such skills like the Reaper passive effect above were selectively cast based on character type, eg if char is ranged/caster/rata melee then Reaper uses that skill, but not on char=non rata melee. Instead some other spell could be used by Reaper just for melee which might be similar in damage but affect OA and say reduces character speed.
This idea could be extended to other Nemesis (looking at you Fabius) or big bosses to give better balanced fights against a range of character types.
Probably this idea too late for Grim Dawn, file it for Grim Dawn 2 !

[Firozo]

How about adding attack/cast speed to Mythical Thundertouch Bracers ? Possible with removed flat electrocut, proc and reduced OA for save balance.

[arivus]

Before the thread closed, I would like to ask for Adversary to also have 50% physical converted to fire damage, should help with Demo build that go either to Ulzuin or Empyrion devotion.

[gutten_morgen]

you know that Adversary is a PURE FLAT PHYSICAL damage gun, right? except for pure Fire Grenado build, i see no reason for a full physical gun need 50% physical converted to any dam type at all. C’mon, its weird as hell

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

couple of small thoughts

• Warborn set looks like it was just tailor-made for dual-wield; why not put a DW-enable passive on the set bonus?
  as neither class it’s aimed at has one natively, and using the set for its intended purpose then “penalizes” you, by forcing an extra hidden “set” item/slot to be occupied on on top

going through my chaos phase i noticed;
there are multiple flat chaos mods to Judgment, but not a single transmuter; yet there are an abundance of Fire transmuters
not really sure if chaos transmuter is entirely needed/who would go there, as it’s a mastery without chaos RR.
But nonetheless it was a curiosity i noticed when trying to shove some oathkeepers in the chaos direction

since the change to Desolator means there are no decent ranged 2h passthrough options for phys dmg;

• how about making Fighting Form’s passthrough effect a permanent effect/for all 3 shots, by ex moving it to deadly momentum?
• alternatively add passthrough to another/different 2h phys ranged, ex Adversary or Solael’s Arbalest ?

i also know just adding passthrough to everything isn’t a great solution for ranged, but it’s kinda hard to come up with different suggestions, specially when it was already there

[Purlpo]

What you just said is weird as hell, of course it would be useful, because there’s no way to convert physical to fire on Canister Bomb without weapon slot and you can very, very easily make bomb thrower build with that weapon.

That said, it would be overpowered, so it’s not a great suggestion.

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

you have 4 weaps already with fire conversion, making another, and ruining one of the few existing phys guns, seem completely redundant when the conversion exist multiple places

[Nery]

Some feedback before the end of the thread.

EOR is good skill but it’s the ultimate example of sheet damage not translating to actual performance.

• Physical Warlord https://www.grimtools.com/calc/4VxRMleN is fine doing slightly over 5:10 in Crucible and can do some realms (although for spinner higher chunks are really painful) like trying to go past Theodin SR version is insanely difficult or Grava ofc. But one thing needed to be said is lack of sufficient life steal. Scales nerf hit hard global life steal of physical builds and EoR don’t even have high WD base. So my build was left with just 6%. This map boost it to 9%, still on the low end.

• Cold EoR is even slower (with SR set) https://www.grimtools.com/calc/1NXaPrB2 but is expected. Problem lies with Kuba, with bad mutators is close to impossible to kill it in Cruicble. You’re left with massive blood pools and you do all of your damage in close range. Kuba is actual punishment for playing cold melee build (unless for DW with huge RR) and I had to go for ugly map with racial to beasts (which is hard to get).

Another issue for cold EoR is that if you go Gravetouch https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/12726 you can’t do full conversio, since you need 2x Chillhearts to convert lightning to cold. Consider adding conversion on the shield or 45% global, which may open new build possibilities.

• Aether EoR is having similar problem as cold, you can’t convert lightning to aether. https://www.grimtools.com/calc/lNk7yBDN Conduit need bit of a help, lightning to aether and boost of flat damage to 100. Aether version, despite passive RR, attack speed etc is in the discussions for slowest EoR build.

• Lightning EoR have low DPS and right now is struggling, which is common for WD oriented lightning builds (minus few exceptions) It’s hard to go faster than 5:30 in Crucible and I doubt SR will be very kind to it, regardless of your second class. Paladin version https://www.grimtools.com/calc/xZyGYbq2 and Archon by @eardianm
  https://www.grimtools.com/calc/qNYpqb7Z Archon in particular suffered a lot after being powerhouse build in early FG era. I would like to see lightning RR to guardians and overall buff to WD sources for lightning damage. Archon class is bottom tier right now with both lightning EoR and bleeding builds with this class are underwhelming

• Acid, Pierce and fire (along with physical) seems fine, no OP but are in good spot. Haven’t played chaos or vitality.

Vire’s Might is one of my favorite skills but it’s mostly useful for procing and movement skill. Hard to justify for damage source anything bur fire. Few items with - CDR and CD reset chance and most of them are bound with conversion. For DoT stacking you need more mods with DoT damage and usual are just direct. Bleeding is an idea, I wanted to try Archon and was really bad. https://www.grimtools.com/calc/YZe87Y6V Bleeding don’t have skills to spam, so decided to charge Savagery. Good idea, cause otherwise I would’'ve be left with 8% physical resistance, yikes. Goredrinker for full bleeding set is leaps behind Bloodrager, no stats, hard to get DA and OA (even on pierce infiltrator with Conviction!!!) and no physical resistance on heavy set. Also only pure bleeding class is Shaman, which isn’t supported. Going for Inquisitor will lean heavily on pierce damage.

Cold version have almost no support, except Alkamos Warsword, which lacks global CDR and you don’t have cold exclusive skill for Dervish. Build with full Vanquisher set: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/pZrdgaO2

Callidor’s Tempest is one of the weakest spamming skills in the game. Aether is the only excpetion. Even the cold Spellbreaker, I’ve posted is struggling against heavy resistant enemies and struggle to survive as well. Still cold 2H version stacking WD is somewhat useful. Now lightning and fire are not. Both are really glassy, lightning as Druid and fire as Sorc, I couldn’t complete Crucible. Both struggle, cause they don’t have enough radius/range of attack and not enough life steal. Bigger target area is good start. And Maw of Despair should be universal helmet, removal of fire to aether conversion and adding % lightning/fire damage will be a good idea.

Also after talking with @Evil_Baka decided to try Scion of Screaming Veil but for fire. https://www.grimtools.com/calc/q2mAWM02 Despite 177k sheet damage, build is really slow to kill heavy resistant enemies and dies in a flash in melee range. Aether Binder with this weapon is good BTW*.

Speaking of non-existing range, I did @afanasenkov26 Stun Jacks Purifier https://www.grimtools.com/calc/nZoypbQ2 and died in all of my 3 runs in Crucible. Two of them would’ve been close to 6 minutes, so not only sustain isn’t enough but also damage is mediocre. And you basically play riskier than melee builds.

Dark One set is easily available and was too good at some point, problem is after was nerfed, Cabalist version struggle both with damage and defense. Premise of leeching caster is nice but build isn’t stable for buffed Crucible runs and high realms, while clear speed isn’t impressive at all. 5:30 is the absolute maximum. I talked with @mad_lee and Conjurer also is not that impressive.

Aether OP stuff We know Binder is top class and makes sense with all of the synergy but aether is taking advantage of freebie strong items. Z mentioned changing Krieg set to boost more Soldier’s side, cause that will not hurt Battlemage but also will help DK and will be slight nerf to Binder. Also Lucius’ Arm could use some of that treatment. Item improve so much Battlemage class but Binder Arc with it was so ridiculously strong. Night Herald is also little bit OP for aether Inquisitors. Grey’s Infiltrator https://www.grimtools.com/calc/1NXagMP2 have - 49% RR to passive aura - Veil of Shadow and - 51% RR to Pain.