The quantity isnt equal to quality. The sheer quantity of DW builds simply shows the number of options available for them - lot of items & class combination to consider - but all of those are weak nevertheless.
I bet you could just “inflate” the number of 2-handed and caster builds by making some tweaks, and make them push most melee DW out of top-100 too. I’d rather have a 1-2 builds in top-5, than 30 builds in top-50 to top-100. Because for me, those from top-50 to top-100 are just a left-overs, gallore, etc., compared to those top-10 or top-20.
Regardless whether you fix DW with animations, or by increasing the damage of WPS skills, or in some other way.
But something has to be done. DW melee is too weak, that’s a fact. Just look at top-tier builds list, and there are almost no DW melee there, and even if there are, they arent among top 10, or even 20. And one of those is EoR based on Dunefiend set, which isnt even a proper DW for me, it dual-wields weapons just because the set requires so.
The difference between the hit frame of Belgothian’s Shears and Reaping Strike at base attack speed is 1/10th of a second, or 3 frames. At 200% attack speed…well… Their interrupt frame, when your character can begin a new input, is exactly the same.
These animations have been this way since their creation. And in fact the slower ones had gotten sped up since then. There is a point where speeding them up further not only changes the “feel” of the hit, but also the overall DPS as the interrupt frame moves up. Moving the hit frame alone is not possible as then there would be a misalignment between the visual animation and the hit registration.
Dual Wield builds performed fine, and even used to be top tier, before any animations changes so it’s not like animations are suddenly the problem. You have established yourself as an authority on the endgame in this community, so if you’re going to keep repeating the same thing that is literally not going to matter to the average human being not pushing 4 minute timers, I have no choice but to step in and contradict that argument.
I admit Necrotic Edge’s hit frame is a little slower, can tweak that to match the timing of the standard WPS in the game, which incidentally is the timing of Belgothian’s.
See, I’d rather have 30 builds in the top 100, or better yet the top 500 because there are that many options with very comparable results. The top 5-10 are almost certainly overtuned in some way.
Nope, it’s my own game experience too. I’ve yet to find a melee DW build, that has the same level of tankiness, DPS, clearspeed, etc., as 2-h melee or casters. Maybe i’m just yet to find “the one”, who knows?
Yes, that’s for sure. Like that Avenger set, for example. Do you really believe it’s totally balanced & fine? Stacking like 60% physical resist without giving up anything? Well, i dont. I know it’s ovetuned and offers too many sweet things all at once. I dont say we should just butcher it, but some slight nerfs would be very welcomed.
That would be absolutely crazy, if a 4-piece set did it, right?
I meant, with that set you’re not giving up anything serious, and getting a 60% phys res nevertheless. While still having great DPS, AoE, OA/DA, resists, and everything else a good build does. Hell, it even gets 2k+ HP/S regen for free.
just base all phys res allowance on the assumption it’s a witch hunter with dual blades and aspect of the guardian that will wear it, 0 phys res items because you get 30% in class
I haven’t filed a request for that title. What i did do is i played an asbolutely unhealthy amount of builds in recent years, with big focus on AA builds, which resulted in a huge frame of reference to compare not only builds but same category skills and their value.
Variety and feel for gameplay were always more important for me than peak results. Necrotic Edge feels bad, Belgo Shears feels bad. And this bad feeling is perfectly reflected in results: regardless of the mods you have (and NE can have pretty ridiculous mods), builds with these WPS turn out weaker.
We’ve tested Belgo set Blademaster for top20 with scrutiny. The best version came out to be the one without Belgo Shears. On a set called Belgothian. Which has a big mod for Belgo WPS.
If they have the same performance as Avenger - yes, they should be nerfed too. Though i dont think there are “many” such builds, if ANY at all.
DW Witch hunter is OK. It might have high phys resist from both masteries, but its HP pool sucks, he has no AA skil, etc.
Avenger build is tailor-made for Savagery, and it gets its physical resist with just a single mastery, while STILL retaining massive HP boost from Brute Force & Oak Skin, STILL able to use Primal Bond for % damage absorb,
Theoretically, you could get Occultist as a second mastery and get 74% physical resist as well as 15% damage absorb. It just isnt worth it, because its tankiness is already beyond any sane content, and it’s better to boost DPS instead.
You can only blame yourself for using Avenger set without a Shaman mastery and getting a subpar build in the end. Having 12.6k HP on Warlord is just a shame, really. Why would you even chose Soldier over Shaman for such a build? Giving up a FAR more damaging AA skill with +18% phys res for an extra single-target WPS skill? Doesnt feel like a fair trade for me.
Where’s the evidence that Avenger is overperforming? And no, having those stats is not overperforming because i have had many builds that had fantastic stats on paper but turned out mediocre in perfomance.
Neither Avenger set (which has been nerfed twice -the set and the warcry helm-) nor the Octavius set is overperforming and needs a nerf. Talk about underperforming builds.
Seriously, almost 300 comments and there is barely any talk about boosting weaker builds. I want next patch to bring more options.
Another QOL suggestion. Please add an option to change the cursors colour to some brighter colour(or an outline), and modify its size. On a 4k monitor the cursor is tiny and gets lost very often.
And for whoever suggests me some mod, yes I know, but I believe the base game should have that option, or atleast scale the cursors size better depending on resolution.
Thanks, hope you take it into consideration!
This. Who cares if build X or Y is too good for SR or Crucible? Can you do all the content you want with a build weaker than that? Yes? Then what’s the problem? I assume most of us aren’t here to play the most optimul build that farms content 2 minutes faster than the rest. In fact how many of us contributing to this discussion even care about farming anymore, when we’ve probably had 15 of every legendary in the game? That is not to say the game should balance around experienced players who don’t care about farming, but rather, why balance around farming efficiency and nerf Octavius when it would just be to the detriment of the people who actually care about farming efficiency? Octavius or any other build being fast and good isn’t hurting anyone. More concerning is if the game indicates through items that a certain build is supported and should be possible, but then you put it together and it sucks.
On that note, it has been mentioned before but got buried by all the Octavius stuff: spam BWC is in need of help. The casting animation is way too slow for what the skill delivers on damage, and while it has great utility (flat RR, OA reduction and DR all in one) and does wonderfully on trash AoE clear, it’s just not really there on DPS, and is a pain to sustain, both in terms of health and energy (I went Sorcerer anticipating energy issues and even then I had to go mental on energy devotions to keep casting). Infernal Champion doesn’t provide anything for health regen and the lifesteal option on main skill is out of the window as well, so it’s forced to sustain off of Bat, no part of which is in the correct damage type, so that eats a good part of the inventory to convert for mediocre results. Moreover the best weapon for BWC, Herald of Blazing Ends, has a phys base so the %WD aspect of Bat is also diminished in effectiveness. Spam BWC is by far the sweatiest 3/5 build in SR I’ve played. It barely eeks out an over 50 % success rate in SR75-80 runs within timer and does so kiting its little heart out to a heart-attack inducing rate almost every step of the way past like SR77. Either BWC needs at least a pittance of lifesteal on it, or something like Mythical Tome of Atonement could use some damage conversion changes to at least make Bat a more effective option, if that’s the route we’re supposed to take with the build.
I’ve also circled back to my 2h Chaos Reaping Arc Deceiver to do some reliability testing on it for SR and despite the various refinemens I’ve put on it from TQFan’s suggestions way back, it’s still awful. Mythical Wrath of Tenebris suggests that a 2h Chaos Deceiver should be a thing but it’s just woeful, the combo doesn’t provide anything of worth for AoE and is just not that great on defense, what with all the Inquisitor Seal setup and being forced to stand in place among ground effects cause if you move out of Seal you’re splat. At first I thought it might just be Reaping Arc failing me on AoE but no, even a Howl of the Wendigo Blad Arc Witchblade feels better than Deceiver because while it might be glacially slow (unlike Deceiver), at least it’s sturdy and defensive. Not sure what to do with that though, cause the Deceiver combo is just inherently iffy on melee. Maybe if the Harbinger bonuses applied not just to ranged so the helmet and gloves do some more work?
say what?, the set pretty clearly supports a warlord approach, so there is no way that shouldn’t be utilized or be allowed
that’s my choice, that has nothing with avenger or warlord and being cunning greedy etc - but the hp pool also has nothing todo with whether the set has too much phys res
because it’s possible, because the set supports it and the approach/avenger warlord is actually good despite what you think (even if my setup version is a bit less optimal/more greedy than ex Banana’s)
i thought this was Grim Dawn where we intentionally allowed build freedom and supported multiple build approaches, and never demanded that items/sets should only be used for 1 specific build
