[1.1.5.2] Plasmo's & spanks' Spite PB Blademaster: Mortred the Phantom Assassin (3:55 buffed/beacon clear; 5:43 naked clear)

[Zantai]

what was perhaps surprising to us was how it escaped unscathed in 1.1.5.2 but that’s neither here nor there.

Yes well…we get shit for making changes quickly in hotfixes and apparently we get shit for not, so can’t say I’m losing sleep over it.

Opted to just push the hotfix and go off on holidays, but wait, we don’t test our changes either…guess I got no excuse.

[sir_spanksalot]

In all honesty, I wasn’t being sarcastic when I said that. I can only imagine how tiresome it must’ve been to introduce an overhaul as massive as the one undertaken for blues/greens.

I’m just expressing the initial surprise I felt when I read the patch notes for 1.1.5.2, that’s all.

[Zantai]

Not directed at you in particular.

[banana_peel]

Chains penalty is pretty big, especially for classes without Soldier or Oathkeeper. It probably needs to be every 40 secs to have more impact on the gameplay. And the bonuses might be nerfed a little bit.

This belt is very good build enabler. Don’t wanna see it written off the game.

[Norzan]

I’d like to leave the mods to olerons rage alone as it might enable other pierce based spam casters

Aw shit, Pierce FW Blademaster. Okay, leave the Oleron’s Rage mod alone.

[sir_spanksalot]

@banana_peel mate, i’ve initiated the discussion on balancing spite/chains of anguish here:

V1.1.6.0 Itemization Discussion

Okay…this has been a long time coming - but I’d like to initiate the discussion on how to nerf the 2 most OP items in the game: Spite Chains of Anguish Spite Has surpassed 1.1.4.2’s rancor in every way imaginable. Better damage, better casting speed (allowing for better devotion pathing), more relevant skill points, etc. Despite its OPness, the solution to Spite is rather straightforward IMO: Increase %WD penalty from -70% to -80% Increase TDM penalty from -50% to -70% Alternatively, one …

I’d love to hear your input! <3

@Norzan: TBH, I’ve been toying with the idea of pierce-based acid purge tactician

I wonder how that’ll work

[mad_lee]

Spite adjustments were already on the table for v1.1.6.0.

Can we get a preview of those changes?

[medea_fleecestealer]

Not until 1.1.6.0. drops as usual.

[mad_lee]

Not until 1.1.6.0. drops as usual.

I am afraid it’s gonna another one of those nerfs-but-not-really-nerfs like Spite instead of Rancor or “nerfed” AAR that is still hella op and does 4 minutes.

[x1x1x1x2]

I don’t think the Oleron’s rage mod is the biggest issue here. It’s the conversions. Just gotta leave this comment from another thread here:

On another topic

IMO cutting the chaos conversion and nerfing the mods to match the transmuter is fine.

For reference, PB with 16/16 main skill, 12/12 Heart Seeker and 12/12 Nether edge will deal the following per projectile on average (before transmuter but proportions will stay similar even counting that): 187.5 pierce, 135 vit, 157 cold, 140.5 chaos. Spite deals 100% of that damage as pierce . Demonslayer deals around 71% of that on average (considering 30% cold to vit and 50% chaos to vit). Cold, assuming 100% vit to cold, which you can get whether you go Harra or not, 50% pierce to cold with speaker offhand and 30% chaos to cold uses around 69% of that. But then acccounting for the number of projectiles: Spite has 100 6 = 600%; Demonslayer has 71 8 = 568% and Cold has 69*6 = 414%. This means that Cold PB needs a fuckton of buffs in order to be viable if PB base skill is nerfed. Don’t nerf PB skill and just nerf Spite and maybe demonslayer . That’s the simplest way to keep the balance among PB builds.

edit: cutting chaos conversion will gut Spite damage from 600% to 463.8. Still way better than cold especially considering enemy resists but might be worse than demonslayer (without considering enemy resists) which might make sense to many people considering demonslayer is a whole set.

[Zantai]

I am afraid it’s gonna another one of those nerfs-but-not-really-nerfs like Spite instead of Rancor or “nerfed” AAR that is still hella op and does 4 minutes.

I’ll be sure to send you guys my permission slip.

[mad_lee]

And I’ll be sure to congratulate you for another balanced patch via pigeon post

[Nery]

Congrats for the fastest build alive(as now) !

Z nerfs 5 minutes builds? This one will not be nerfed, it’s only 4 minutes. JK

[sir_spanksalot]

i think beating sub-4 B/B cr, and/or a sub-5:45 naked run is near impossible, unless crate unintentionally releases items just as broken as spite + chains

[mad_lee]

unless crate unintentionally intentionally releases items just as broken as spite + chains

They sure keep up the drama and the interest to this game with patches like this tho.

[Nery]

unless crate unintentionally intentionally releases items just as broken as spite + chains

They sure keep up the drama and the interest to this game with patches like this tho.

January probably will see how Spite is gonna be changed

But every patch have hidden gems that makes some builds really OP. Then it’s another spec turn. In 1.0.7.1 people were using N&O in every build after months of literally 0 builds with it. In FG we made both the only N&O builds - Saboteurs.

And of course this is just one example. AAR piercing caused the skill to be playable. And just because it wasn’t explored option we or even Z couldn’t know how good are really the items or the skill damage values. Now it’s probably FoI time.

And I personally play so many builds. So don’t have issues with it. Maybe will try something new too?

[sir_spanksalot]

Sure. It might’ve been possible to tell that spite was gonna be OP upon first glance on GT, but I don’t think anyone could’ve foreseen a sub-4 clear.

Even back when I was rooting for plasmo in the chat group to break that 4min threshold,I didn’t actually think it was possible until he got that 4:04 clear.

That was about the time we decided to try chains, and to adopt ya’s suggestion of testing azraaka.

[sir_spanksalot]

unless crate unintentionally intentionally releases items just as broken as spite + chains

They sure keep up the drama and the interest to this game with patches like this tho.

January probably will see how Spite is gonna be changed

But every patch have hidden gems that makes some builds really OP. Then it’s another spec turn. In 1.0.7.1 people were using N&O in every build after months of literally 0 builds with it. In FG we made both the only N&O builds - Saboteurs.

And of course this is just one example. AAR piercing caused the skill to be playable. And just because it wasn’t explored option we or even Z couldn’t know how good are really the items or the skill damage values. Now it’s probably FoI time.

And I personally play so many builds. So don’t have issues with it. Maybe will try something new too?

I think the most amazing thing about GD is the constant discoveries even the most seasoned theorycrafters still stumble upon.

While I remain skeptical that 3:55 can be broken, especially with Z’s stance on what he considers top tier in Cr, we are always trying to find ways past this line in the sand, so it is definitely plausible.

[mad_lee]

we are always trying to find ways past this line in the sand, so it is definitely plausible.

whenever Z. nerfs stuff in the new patch but builders find a way to roll in with another broken build:

[sir_spanksalot]

To quote @maya, “Damn, Zantai just can’t win ”