doesn’t change the ratio and the nerfs in almost 0 cases broke a build, they usually just make it slightly less powerful, as intended.
So your way of saying this is at least as distorted.
so the nerfs cannot have been that ruinous then 
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Do yourselves a favor and just stop while you two are ahead.
(Thread cleaned up)
Deleting a comment pointing out a flaw in someone’s reasoning while keeping one that literally calls out the community as “idiots” is bit of a favoritism.
But, hey, private forum and all that, I guess 
If something was made unplayable by a patch, by all means, show us.
Or if you already did, maybe I missed it among all the frothing outrage you made that patch that turned out to be over nothing.
We are always happy to review changes if constructive feedback is provided, assuming someone’s definition of unviable is actually realistic.
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Or, you know, use the report tool. Do you honestly expect me to read every word in here? Post cleaned up…
I see few people talk about Crucible times decrease, there’s few reasons about it:
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aggro fix. Since this was massively improved times improved for all of builds. Monster stuck at spawn points is rarer, you spend also less time chasing mobs across the screen, which makes your approach more consistent.
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Banner configuration. Since it was discovered using 3 or 4 Storm beacons is better than banner in bottom left, times improved a lot. After the nerfs difference is smaller but getting passive AoE small damage and RR helps in your main strategy of focusing on the big guys and kill trash with your AoE/procs.
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Overall buffs. It’s true, when it’s mentioned that buffs are always far more than nerfs. Other than certain items/skills/devotions being better, one of the main reasons is the massive buff to MI items. You can see even former members of “no-green mafia” are now using them to full effect.
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Players getting better. Sounds like a cliche but with time people have found better ways to create builds and improved their piloting. If we look two years ago or slightly more only John Smith was so ahead of the rest, these days most of the Crucible players are much faster and overall better pilots than your average player.
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Lemme correct you a bit. Storm beacons were buffed that’s why they were discovered. RR wasn’t there before but I can’t recall exactly how many patches it took since the buff before it became standard.
Fair enough.
The patch that tinkered with Blightfiends and Unstable Anomaly was not 1.1.9.0.
I am talking about the swapping of CD from Mythical Circlet to the Amulet slot thereby rendering Unstable Anomaly with Ghol Set a worse option than simply going for 2 Blightfiends without Transmuter.
We both have different standards for builds. So, I don’t see much of a point in providing examples through the build’s performance.
Like, I have a Pet Battlemage that clears SR 75-76 in the current patch. Considering the meme-ness of such a build, I would put the standard for proper Pet builds to be higher. I don’t play Crucible though, so no comments on that, but Blightfiends were not nerfed due to Unstable Anomaly being OP in Crucible. So, if I were to tell you that a build struggles at SR 75, I can expect the response to be that the balance stops at around SR 60 or so.
However, my major issue is not about performance per se. Blightfiends are Physical + Acid and considering there is no to Physical conversion for pets, the logical move would be to convert physical into Acid as well or, both into something else.
Necromancer has no inherent Acid RR. Neither does Shaman. Occultist does, in the form of Vulnerability, but that is it.
Ghol set rectified this by providing additional RR on Shaman + from the Set Pet’s Aura.
Granted, Cabalists didn’t benefit much from it, but Ritualists did. But currently, if you wish to take Unstable Anomaly, you are essentially forced to try and play a non Acid Blightfiend build lest you wish to deliberately gimp yourself.
If it was something like chaos, it could still work without having too much RR. But it is not.
So, then what is the solution? Play Ghol, but without U.Anomaly? ok, that works. But that always did and never was a focus of complaint.
Play non Ghol Blightfiends with UA and Medal? Then you either lose out on damage compared to other choices you could have gone for, or… perhaps use conduit to change everything to Vitality.
That is certainly an option, but I remember Conduits being considered as these tools to enable weird and quirky builds although I am not sure if I can find your exact quote on it. But then, it becomes the core of the build here. Maybe, that was the intention? I can only guess without knowing the thought process behind the change.
Granted, Blightfiends were overperforming in SR and Unstable Anomaly did play a part in it. But seems like the entire playstyle of “Bomb Fiends” got nerfed instead of their power simply getting toned down. Like, if we could still field 4x Fiends with Ghol Set, even with say… a -%Total Dmg penalty for doing so, it would still have been a better option.
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Most players look for what makes a build fun to play and viable to beat a reasonable amount of content. If the buffs on a set of patch notes don’t make a skill viable, then a 20% increase of 0 is still 0. Giving a multitude of buffs to something like fire DEE or 1H Blade Arc is not going to impress people if they’re still not playing fire DEE or 1H Blade Arc to start with.
If I had to give a number for the record, I’d say the ratio’s more like 70:30. My main gripe is that people are not “idiots” for disapproving a set of buffs that don’t actually make something viable.
As for potentially ruinous nerfs,
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Rune of Hagarrad changes made it from a universally applied skill limited only by creativity and damage conversions to a relatively niche skill that’s only used with the proper set or conduit.
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Allaghast nerfs wrecked John_Smith’s old Aether Storm Box build and I have yet to see people attempt to build around Storm Box outside of Light’s Defender.
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Cyclone Set got nerfed for like 4 patches in a row which was at least 2 nerfs more than necessary.
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Lightning Canister Bomb being moved to a DW gun set which really affected non-set Canister Bomb builds.
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As Maya mentioned, changing up Unstable Anomaly without proper testing of the non-set Summon Blight Fiend items to make up for losing the ability to use it with Ghol’s Set.
All I’m saying is that I can understand their point of view without calling them idiots.
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I did not mean to imply that every complaint is unjustified, many are however, so most of that whining the OP was wondering about is just people complaining because some build they like is now 5% less effective
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Threads like this seem to be the natural side effect of developers listening to fan base suggestions for years. Considering what a wonderful enrichment this is, I think it’s a tiny price to pay. I want to get a perspective: Are there any other games out there, blessed like GD, where the fan base gets such a huge say in how to improve the game?
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You obviously are missing the point.
Look at the initial post.
Now look at the thread, what (be)came of it.
And stuff like this IS important. And should be looked after. Is the criticism justified, and if yes, what do we do about it.
Personally I do not like to be stripped of build-options, I rather like to see more added.
Well. I think one should ask oneself: Which GD would be better:
1.0.0.0, assuming Crate never implemented player suggestions in the first place, or
1.1. 9.1?
I am with you but it is STILL not the point of this thread!
True. But maybe it helps putting things into perspective, and eventually let go and enjoy the game.
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well, I’m afraid I can only enjoy it again, when I know what 1.1.9.2 will … change. There are several … points, that I fear could be nerfed and nerfed hard based on what has been done before, and could kill this game for me.
I have reasons to NOT show off, what I am building, you know… I don’t want it to be nerfed.
Can relate, yes.
Quick, someone drag up the Zantai quote where he laughs at people that think they are hiding their builds from the person who put every item in the game.
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But seriously, you haven’t even managed to clear the last bit of Crucible. What is it that you really think you are hiding again that better players long before you haven’t already achieved and more?
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You mean the person who still admids to ‘oversights’ and ‘exploits’, you mean that very person, yes? YES?
Well, you are not a thorough reader, obviously… I tried FINISHING Crucible ONCE! ONCE! (btw, I found it to be a Warlock. Not a Conjurer…) I am using it currently only for speedleveling the first, sometimes also second quarter (levels 1-50) of my Char, 'cause I am not too fond of Arenamodes in general. AND I am still testing, learning…
Ähem… oversights and exploits? Maybe? Strange combinations, which work surprisingly well and I did NOT find in the buildcompendiums? But I wouldn’t call that hiding. Just keeping it to myself for the time being. Until either the third expansion comes up or GD developement is really finished. Which, as I hope, will take another 5 years of MOAR.
I play for immersion. For that I need story. While I do that I test and I learn. I am not playing this game for Science. But… in the End I will come up with the total optimum and yes, it is likely that this optimum has been found by someone else already. Difference between me and most yous is: I found it myself then, and with my own methods.
And then there’s this:
So, be a little less arrogant.
Indeed. Tell me again how this makes me not a thorough reader? You just made my point. Hide your builds but I’m willing to start taking bets with other people in this thread that you got nothing special enough to warrant hiding (or showing).
One day you will learn that this isn’t going to happen.
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Also, here’s a great Zantai response where he touches upon people that think they are getting one over on him by “hiding” their “special” (lul) builds, among other things.
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You do of course realize that a good majority of the prolific builders here “found” their builds themselves. With their own methods.
And don’t assume how many of us here play. I rarely ever follow anyone’s builds and if I do use someone’s build it is as a template primarily that I take in my own way.
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