I had spent a LOT of time farming and farming and farming before I completed the first build capable of end-game activities, and after farming them for quite I still own way less gear to COMPLETE the other top builds. So dont take the relatively often legendary drops for the ease of gearing. Its not loot 2.0 of D3 when the game was intentionally “gearing you up”, its more like D2, where only few items of a large pool were needed by the build. Once that initial loot build-up is behind you, over time it becomes easy to think that gearing in GD is easy, I still remember that early stage, its HARD.
Instead of huehuehue I support…
hephepheph
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Hmmm Question about blocking mechanic
See, what a toxic conversation! Britney Spears can sing, while we’re writing. 
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I think we called each other many things from elitist snob/jerk to GDstashing rat, from filthy casual to no-life min/maxer 
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Yeah it’s true. I enjoy writing with both you guys. But Glenn quit suddenly. But what a surprise, few days later Spank return.
But most of our conversations are jokes and bantering. Actually most of the people have sense of humor. Imagine if people take seriously the jokes and take offensive actions?
Then you’ll have no problems at the forum. Glad you like it so far. First impression is always important.
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So long as it’s easy enough for people to have realistic chances of chasing the items within a casual * endgame timeframe they deserve this classification. They are an accepted baseline that both devs and players focus on. These items, being all handed out at random, at a generous frequency, and governing the performance of a supermajority of builds are, for the purposes all endgame discussions, common.
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Hey thanks bud! You’ve been quite helpful as well- pretty much everyone in my OP has been wonderful, can’t reiterate enough how much I appreciate all the help from that thread.
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I’m afraid it’s not just a “few builds.” I can name at least 20 builds I can do easy sub 6 with and 3-5 I could possibly do sub 5. BTW I’m talking about standard 3+1 runs with greens allowed, no pharma. Not sure what kinda runs your standards apply to.
So, sub six is the meta for top tier GD. It’s not a few over-performing units. It’s the standard of performance. And this standard is not arbitrary - as you’re trying to suggest in “whatever standard they’ve set for themselves” - because it is based on what we’re getting in the game. You can’t blame any “mentality” for that.
You guys need to agree upon the what constitutes a reasonable cutting edge clear time before continuing this discussion.
Personally, I’m ok with the line in the sand drawn out by Z here. I would consider myself a “skilled player,” but consistent sub-6 timings should only be possible in the hands of someone like john’s or your piloting level.
Occasional sub 6 should also be expected if you luck out on mutators/enemy combinations
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The consensus from Z and the preats seems to be “nerf everything sub 6 no matter what” so I’m assuming top mutators/piloting and good enemy combos - which is what we see in most build posts anyway.
I’m also ok. But honestly, I don’t really find it doable within a reasonable amount of time and effort. One of the reasons was in my post above (the one before the 6k hour guy who wanted affixes on purples got everyone’s attention 
). Quoting: @Zantai Builds like Pyran shieldbreaker, Silver Sentinel infiltrator, Venomblade dervish - if they are reduced to 6:00-7:30 speeds on top players/mutators they will no longer be viable for endgame (they hardly are as is). You will either have to adjust the environment again (which is Sisyphean task of buffs and nerfs) or give them defense (which will further homogenize diversity)
What is this “it”? I think most builds that I have more or less fall within the 6 - 7min spectrum as it is, so I’m afraid I don’t follow
Purely based on what i see, if you draw a line like this:
Top pilot, top PC, top rolls, top mutators, top luck with boss combos, enemy movement and dmg output
Half of the builds posted need to be nerfed.
People basically post 6.30 minute builds daily, and if someone with the highest skill sets a goal to break 6 minutes with the spec, in my opinion, they will absolutely do it.
That’s why i think the best solution (if 6 minutes is for some reason so desirable as a line) would be to change Crucible itself. I can’t see how you nerf everything hard below 6 minutes. It will require to make a balance overhaul of the whole game.
The impact of mutators is an interesting topic wherein some builds may benefit disproportionately from specific combinations and have Yahtzee! outlier performance when their average is lower than the peak might suggest
Has anyone considered reducing movement speed? That could reduce clearing speed.
Movement speed of the monsters you mean? The char speed is low by the modern standards as it is. But monsters’ speed is a problem for clear times. They rush you too fast and die from AoE.
I’m going to let the cat out of the bag and tell everyone here the origin story of the “super secret OP theorycrafting” chat group.
EDIT: Point being…
- A 7min build might go sub-6 once every 100 runs, but that doesn’t mean it’s a sub-6 build.
- Crafters here tend not to include a build’s consistency because we usually take the time to polish the build to ensure that it IS consistent. However, there are individuals who only report flashy clear times, and fail to mention other things (e.g. use of pharma, average timings, etc.)
- @xervous - mutators DO significantly impact a build’s performance. Record breaking speed runs (usually those under sub-5) are sometimes achieved via resetting crucible over and over again till you get a set of beneficial mutators.
I can’t speak for the rest, but failing to post average clear times is something I’m definitely guilty of.
It wasn’t done for the e-peen/fame, but more like…“Hey guys! Check out this cool new toy I have!”
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good point. The longer they take to get out of spawn points, the more you have to walk around, gets the same results.
Actually only yesterday i was thinking, what if top builders would agree to post builds with “6.01 min Crucible” in the title no matter the performance? That would make a good meme
Use one of the 5’11” / 6’ meme templates except it’s 6 min / 5:59