So after all the nerf wars and Crucible/general endgame buffs melee physical Cadence found itself to be in a weird place. Crit damage from Beronath was removed to keep EoR builds in check, however, EoR builds are still fine. But melee Cadence, the initial focus of Warborn set (long before it became partly EoR set), became kind of shit. It lacks the single target damage that it used to have and it’s aoe is abysmall. Add to that lack of ADCTH typical for DW physical builds and results are really sad. Crit damage is also very hard to come by if you are playing Physical Warborn build unless you are a Warlord.
Here is what I tested with - my classical Death Knight. As you can see, build looks very tough on paper (stun res and slow res is buffed by multiple craft bonuses) and flat damage is biggest in the game, devotions are semi-defensive with Crab and Empyrion. However playing with it is hard. Clear times are 7-7:40 minutes due to lack aoe and big single target damage and build doesn’t feel consistent. I actually died on 168 to debuffs stacks - had nowhere to run too.
Actually you was talking about strongest offensively physical Cadence build-DW. And Leviathan DK- build with preposterous high DPS is 9 minutes in Crucible. My S&B Warborn Warlord is over 10 minutes. I mean AdctH may be too much but Cadence definitely needs more damage.
It’s one of the builds “Oh, what a DPS” and then wondering when you play it, where went all that damage.
This is why I always avoid physical build. Lack of AoE and high WD sheet damage is only as a pretty number.
Warborn need a damaging cadence mod. I think put more +%WD like 80% to its full set bonus. Also maybe put more damaging physical damage mod to other physical damage weapon like Leviathan. Hmmm, is there something else? LoL…
Also, maybe it’s about time to make all the transmuter and item mod for cadence to work with all cadence hit, not just the third one. Adjust all the +%WD damage mod to a reasonable value if necessary
Crit damage would be welcome. My beronath blademaster took a nasty hit with the AoM nerf followed by losing 25% of its crit damage as a side effect of the EoR nerfs. Something like +targets/attack arc or crit damage on the warborn gavel would be a lot better than its skill mod right now, which is mainly useful for breaking multiple boxes.
It’s also on the best non-warlord class combo for warborn. Witchblades and blademasters have considerably worse performance with the same problems, and either general fragility for WB or a lack of RR for BM.
Somehow single-target AA builds like Belgothian and Deathmarked do great in AoE-centric game. And Warborn’s single target’s damage isn’t stellar either. That clear time means that it dies every 3rd or 4th time in MY hands.
It used be pretty solid at the beginning of FG. 2h Cadence is even worse tho, lol.
I honestly don’t care if builds get buffed/nerfed. It’s pretty reminiscent to life to me.
Can’t control everything.
But with all due respect, Zantai - I think it’s unfair to non-min/maxers if builds are constantly rebalanced based on the performances of a few top players.
Ignoring the potent passive AoE that cold builds get a DW nightblade setup with an auto attack replacer pushes a respectable average %wd value into AoE.
Vague napkin math gives us the following for belgo shears and whirling death
120% wd per hand approx
2 hands
155% wd belgo strikes
40% proc rate
115% charge multiplier
=170% wd cleave per swing
Contrast with cadence
120%240% *2/3 = 64% contribution from wps on blademaster
500%*1.5/3 = 250% on targets struck by fighting form (dw cadence has a 50% chance to strike with both hands last Ceno pointed it out to me in the game files)
This highlights why reaver’s claw has given us some of the best cadence performance-it has a sufficient max target value on cadence to put up AoE that’s in the same realm as AA replacer WPS setups. Normal cadence is supremely narrow and strikes so few targets that most of its AoE will be unboosted wps.
+1. I actually talked to mad_lee about this. What I wanted was add +1 targets to warborn mace but now I think it’s better to just add +2 to fighting form. Something like +1 target at level 1, +2 at level 6 and +3 at level 12. Remove target bonus on Reaver’s Claw to compensate.
Can’t say I am against such change, seeing how ridiculous comparable melee DW builds easily outperform standard WB by 2-4 mins on the timer (with overall much less defensive layers).
I like x1x1x1x2’s idea. Extra targets from the skill (which is always underused) or %degree arcs.
But then, how will other damage types be directly buffed?
How about adding something like extra -XX% RR to WB or even armor ignore?
Or is this only a question of aoe?
Just giving extra targets to fighting form is a direct buff to other damage types. It’s not the most affordable when it comes to points tho. Maybe make the base bonus +2 targets then?
It’s a slippery slope with buffs to the main skill or general buffs to Warborn set. You can’t buff Warborn set with just general buffs, because Physical EoR is still ridiculous, so it’s gotta be mods to Cadence. And you gotta be careful with buffing Cadence base skill because Pierce 2x Reaver Claw Blademaster is also absolutely ridiculous (it’s Shattered Set performance is almost identical to full Belgo, except it never dies).
I haven’t played WB cadence in awhile, but if the problem truly is AoE, perhaps the logical thing to do is to add maybe + X targets to cadence on the 4 set bonus.
But at the end of the day, talking about how to buff a set/skill/whatever is irrelevant. We are putting the cart before the horse.
What it ultimately boils down to is the definition of what “a Viable end game build” is, and the disagreement of that definition between the more vocal members of this community, and others.
For example, I think a build is “viable” if any average joe can consistently hit 7 - 7:30 clears in 3 + 1 crucible with it, with top tier builds hitting that sub-6 mark.
IMO, anything below 5:30 without greens is OP.
EDIT: Forgot to mention pharma too.
I’m not sure where Z draws these boundaries, but if his response is anything to go by, 8 minutes is the point at which he starts viewing builds as viable.
Which is fine in and of itself.
But if top players are struggling hitting that 8min mark, you can bet your sweet cheeks that the average pilot is going to take a solid 45s to a minute longer.
