[Feedback] On pierce strength

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
121

you are still not getting it
no meme builds are not just always collateral dmg, in fact they’ve increased every patch
no it’s not just meme builds or "ridiculous unoptimized/not-wort-hto-play"builds that gets punished for this, but regular builds, you’ve already had multiple people post their builds making their case for how this is not an alround good “nerf”, but something that punishes more regular players than the handful of fantasy cruci builds it reels in
personally i don’t care crapola what you find fun or what you consider meme or optimized or which builds should be “allowed to survive” for cruci glory or and which balance changes should be made not. This is taking back a previous skill upgrade, that opened up a plethora of decent builds for multiple people, that now gets stripped back to “1pt cookie cutter nightblade builds or go home”, because dmg shift - which makes it an absurd decision
if vit or chillwhisper needs to be included in the general blade spirit balancing it could be done so on those sets, and didn’t need to remove the point entirely in going blade spirits on anything but 5 builds

and i’m not pissed at what you said, i’m annoyed at the way you arrogantly dismissed people’s concern so callously, it’s a complete disregard of respect to your fellow players and builders, non-elite status “cruci inner circle” or whatnot, - they have a right to feel grieved by a handful of people’s cruci performance stripping away a dedicated investment now for all the rest of the avail builds.
next up will be reducing blade spirits to a temporary pet again and have snarky comebacks when players voice their displeasure over that (yes i know you didn’t say that/it’s putting words in your mouth)

and you don’t get to tell me what i should quote or which part of what you said i get to address or how i address it, get over yourself, people can still see the entirety of your post in the quotebox or using it to jump to the quoted post, so there is nothing i’m trying to “hide”.

1 Like
122

First, I only commented about how meme builds will be hit on the comment you first replied to. Nothing about regular builds. Your were the one who started commenting on them when I was only talking about memes.

Second, the number of meme builds isn’t the metric you need to look at if something is a collateral damage on nerfs. Take the numerous Callidor’s tempest nerfs when binder was at it’s peak. Fire CT, Chaos CT are both technically nerfed. Doesn’t matter many more damage types of CT you add, if the base skill is nerfed, all variants of the skill is nerfed, meme or not (unless there’s compensation).

Third, I don’t know how you look at it, but imo the BS buff actually didn’t increase diversity. What it did was make people plug in maxed blade spirits on every build they can, because that’s the best way to get damage. Pierce melee is still pierce melee, just with more blade spirits. Chillwhisper is still chillwhisper but with 3 spirits instead of 4. Builds got better but the number of builds didn’t actually increase. What increases diversity was the addition of fire spirits conduit and later on ember calling set, since it opened a new path for fire nightblades.

Fourth, whether I disregarded people’s concerns or disrespected anyone is up to the reader and I do see that you got offended in one way. However the message of that original statement remains the same. There will be builds that will be hit unintentionally by many nerfs. That’s not even an opinion.

123

I disagree on this part. Not all people want to create cookie cutter builds and most of players don’t follow posted builds (most of them also don’t fall in this category) and certainly don’t have best gear in every slot. But players love to mess with their builds and do what they want or thing it’s right, even if it’s impractical or meme. Actually that’s the point of build making, creative freedom to do what you want.

People of course are frustrated when something it’s nerfed. But if the build is meme, performance isn’t the crucial factor and shouldn’t be (that big) point of concern, here I agree with your stance. If I am playing fire Spirits, my biggest concern will be if conduit is changed, so I lose the option of doing this build, damage or summon number is secondary concern. And still Z would probably add summon limit to Conduit, so fire would still have the same performance as before.

6 Likes
124

I just can’t read all of this, too much bitch-slapping and whining in here.

But let me just add what I think reg the first 10-15 posts here.

Fantasy Greens as a basis for a nerf-discussion is … I can’t put it better, it is just dumb. And I can’t help to ask myself about the real motive of posting this…

Yes, I saw that Zantai has a feeling that the fantasy greens might not be the whole/only issue. Whatever the case may be, I would REALLY puke, if the 24/16 Level 3rd Bladespirit would go!

It was sooo fun, to stuggle, strive and crave to get the 24 as early as possible for the third bladespirit, and to be frank I am only even using it for cosmetics ;-).

Not sure if a proposal as the following has been made already, so I just post it myself:

In another Thread people where so super-proud about utilizing stuff like this in their skill spreads:

Now, if we just would NOT delete Blade spirit Number 3 at 24/16 but instead decrease the damage added per level, so that, in the end you have your 3rd spirit, maybe a little weaker than before nerf, but as there are still 3, it would somewhat compensate the damage nerf?

This is not the best idea imho… yet still, if the overall summon limit of the Blade spirits, that are possible in game AT ALL, is not changing after patch… it might be acceptable.

Still, I say rethink the damage scaling in the skill instead of reducing Blade spirit numbers.

Btw: is there info on the horizon, when 1.1.9.2 could be out? Nothing to hold anyone to, just want to get a feeling…

3 Likes
125

Personally, the situation reminds me of how the retal was nerfed. But only the physical retal was imbalanced, and instead of making the corresponding reduction of the physical retal a feature of the absorption of armor, it was nerfed on all things. I had memes, albeit memes, but ideas for all types of damage by retal and of course such nerfs simply destroyed them. You can’t look at this without tears. It’s like taking a binsaw instead of a scalpel in a surgical operation. I feel that they will do the same with pierce damage. When the third pseudo-pet was given on 24/16, I think that all the players gave a standing ovation, but now after such statements, disappointment arises. And this is after the release of the last patch. And this is on the eve of the release of a new game, which is designed for the same community. In the place of the developers, on the contrary, I would increase the chance of rare legendary items falling out, add new things that would advertise the new game, and a month before the release of the game itself, I made a discount on the GD and free cosmetics associated with the new game in order to popularize it among the players. Therefore, what is happening to me is simply bewildering.

1 Like
126

Farthest Frontier has little to do with Grim Dawn.

127

doesn’t really invalidate his point though, does it? From a pure marketing perspective…?

128

Well unless there is stunningly more overlap than I could imagine between the City Builder community and the ARPG community, I’m pretty certain it completely invalidates his point.

1 Like
129

There is.

The central word is ‘build’.

Get it? No? So sad!

130

We can only hope FF won’t have Crucible mode.

1 Like
131

This is already an obvious offtopic. But if interested, then I would add cosmetics to the helmet in the form of a Robin Hood hat, but with feathers that resemble the ears of elves, I called the hat of a hunter from Farthest Frontier. He also made cosmetics for a two-handed ranged weapon in the form of a beautiful elven bow, named it a hunter’s bow from a Farthest Frontier. There would be a desire, but how to implement advertising ideas will always be found. The main thing is to do it efficiently and not intrusively.

1 Like
132

So…anyways…Pierce damage.

7 Likes
133

well… Elven Bow!?

duh

134

I apologize for leaving the topic of discussion. This was done to slightly reduce the degree of discussion, which, in my opinion, could lead to the destruction of the type of damage in question in principle. Personally, I think removing the third spirit on 24/16 will only hurt the game, not in terms of efficiency, but more fun. In terms of the intricacies of game mechanics, I think that more competent people will give better recommendations. For my part, I should note that the considered builds use a lot of rare things and use affixes that allow you to increase the percentage of damage directly or by freeing attribute points. Few people are capable of doing this, and they only build builds for maximum efficiency. In this case, things are mostly drawn, although they can accidentally fall in the game. I didn’t want to get an undeserved restriction of gameplay in the latest corrections of the game. I hope for your foresight and understanding.

1 Like
135

Fire doesn’t always use conduit: (my build for reference: 1.1.9.1 "Smash, Slash, and Ash" Conduitless Fire Guardian + Blade Spirit Dervish SR75). Even if they all did though, there are still other Blade Spirit builds I’ve theorycrafted such as Acid, Aether, and Chaos which do not have any Blade Spirit items that support them.

2 Likes
136

Then suggest items which you’d like to see that support added to.

137

For my linked build, you’d probably need to put Blade Spirit support on Ember’s Calling somewhere. For Acid, you could put it on Mad Queen’s Claws or Putrid Necklace. For Aether, maybe Soulare’s Helm or Blaze Herald? For Chaos, you could do Rah’Zin set. I personally think this wouldn’t be the ideal way to fix the issue at hand because giving Blade Spirit support as compensation on these items/sets would not only be a bit anti-thematic for the items but also force any Blade Spirit build of the relevant damage type to use these items only (somewhat ruining the build diversity I think the status quo offers).

138

Just about all of these are already overloaded on bonuses, putting any more in whether it’s skill bonuses or skill modifiers is going to get to crazy levels.

While I’m always appreciative of supporting new combinations of damage and skills, i don’t think it’s feasible to support every skill with every damage type. So some of them, the ones that have no support going in like Aether, Acid or Chaos Blade Spirits may just have to accept the loss frankly.

139

I strongly object. If this is the way to go, why not just have few new items made (not sure about the effort needed, though…)? I for example also miss the cold doombolt or the fiery bloody pox. I’d like to see gapclosing rather than loss…

140

9 posts were split to a new topic: DLC Discussion