Yeah I agree with this. It’s a big reason why I don’t think compensation support on Blade Spirit items would be the proper solution.
Would it not be better then just to have 3 Blade Spirits continue to be available on level 24 for these damage types instead of being collaterally nerfed because of Pierce Blade Spirit? This is how I see it anyways.
And THAT is EXACTLY the point made, many times, by many posters in here and I fully agree to it.
It still would be a nerf in that, if these builds are to continue existing, they must go out of their way to use such an item. This goes along the lines of what I was saying earlier where then all builds that would want to use Blade Spirit then must use these items in question because they can’t get summon limit otherwise.
I personally think there are better ways to go about nerfing Pierce crucible times than getting rid of one summon limit on level 24+ Blade Spirit. Hitting more rare Pierce affixes, for instance, does this without affecting the rest of the Blade Spirit builds and probably does it in less changes too (no need to add +1 Blade Spirit to various items as compensation).
Apparently this needs to be reiterated Again, please keep the thread on topic.
Next time it will be reiterated by other means.
That’s the kind of deal you make when you try to make a build around a skill and damage type combination that have next to no item support for them outside of generic pieces like Nemesis Shoulders/Pants and +1s to a mastery. You also have to go out of your way to use specific gear affixes or equipment pieces to push yourself up to 24-26 Blade Spirit as well right?
Of course, but I don’t think there needs to be additional hurdles that may or may not just kill the concept of such builds outright (as they already are niche). Acid especially I think is a damage type that should continue to exist for Blade Spirit considering Nightblade natively supports it.
For me personally, it’s amazing how the theme of imbalance pierce damage turned into a theme of nerfing bladed spirits based on builds with a lot of rare items. If there is no desire to put a limit on the characteristics, then the logical way out of this situation is a small correction on these rare things of the native flat and percentage pierce damage, as well as on the affixes used in these builds. It may also need a small correction to the base damage of the rare weapon being used. The main thing is not to overdo it. This will slightly affect all pierced builds, but will return the builds specified in the theme to the game balance.
The very nature of meme builds means that if a skill is overperforming in its intended use, then nerfing it will hurt memes.
I am more than willing to compensate unusual playstyles where possible, but we’re not going to be crippled by indecision because a wildly unsupported damage variant of a skill will be caught in the cross-fire of tuning for the betterment of the game as a whole.
We have not yet settled on what the final solution will be to the issues brought up in this thread, but it is inevitable that any change will affect memes in some way.
It’s sad. Many players try to collect something exclusive in the game, without wondering about efficiency. I believe that, on the contrary, you need to maintain the desire to do something unusual and at the same time not breaking the game balance. Seeing such builds, which have at least minimal efficiency, beginners show more interest in the game, because a significant number of fun builds speaks of a large space for build-building creativity.
Well, I’ve presented a couple ways along with other posters on how to avoid hitting Blade Spirits generally while still nerfing Pierce builds. I think, however, we just disagree on what’s actually problematic here. I believe Blade Spirits broadly are not the actual issue here whereas you (and possibly the rest of the dev team) do. In which case, you’re right that there’s probably no solution which can satisfy both beliefs. In which case, I’ll trust the decisions of the dev team regardless of what they are and try to get my meme builds posted before the patch hits lol.
Still waiting for the patch where if a build completes Crucible in less than 6mins, Wave 171 starts with Callagadra 
Hah. I browse this discussion just for a read on occasion. But I have to admit that this was a funny, but fairly effective, deflect for a community that loves to go OT. 
Maybe for unbuffed ex spawn… Because that certainly would qualify as an extra spawn 
that’s the thing, it’s not just that, it’s “regular” pierce and cold dmg builds/spirits that will get hammered.
Right now it’s currently ok’ish to create a decent, but not “top-cruci” Blade Spirit-X build with the existing itemization
But, it requires complete dedication to do without fantasy greens, and is thus a significant portion of your build investment, outside of just 16skill points, since using multiple item slots for 1 skill is a fairly significant trade-off imo.
What you then get is an ok performing, non-game-shattering pseudo pet build, since you don’t have the points or slots to go as deep into other point areas, aside from fantasy greens, to do more than bonus/complimentary dmg.
Removing a “whole” spirit, complete makes such investment pointless, and shoves you back into just pure raw NB/X skill dmg, because the dmg trade-off is no longer there to make it worthwhile focusing on pets instead of ex maxing SS/WPS+LA etc etc direct player dmg
Tho as piercing pets goes it ofc currently has a double-edged nerf inbound, if the treacherous means belt is killed off too… 
Seconded
Seconded
Seconded.
I’m totally with these guys. I hope, this was not ‘off-topic’. The other stuff weren’t too, but not everyone understands secondary and tertiary but totally ONTOPIC issues…
Long read, lots of good points.
So…
Balancing around obscene double rare MIs: at some level, as much as it sucks, you kinda have to consider it and at the same time it doesn’t make sense. The only thing holding someone back from obtaining those items is how they view GDstash. In other words the players decision. Then on the other hand, having the knowledge of someone doing sub 4 crucible…does it affect me? Nope. Are they having fun? Yes? More power to them. At the end of the day, from a logic standpoint, if Crate nerfs from this perspective I understand. I am for the health of the game and to increase longevity since the other arpgs on the market are not anywhere near this one, IMO.
Removing 24/16 extra BS: very much against this but not from a damage perspective but from one of a aesthetic one. Having a large swarm of player scaled pets is just a blast to play. I wish I could summon 10 spirits. Yeah yeah damage adjusted. As bad as D3 might be or not be in a players mind, it was a super fun playing crusader with literally 2-3 dozen phalanx type pets swarming mobs like ants. Damage was (unsure now) bad but the fun was really there.
Moving the extra summon to other items, yes please. Someone above mentioned the BS scarab shield. +1 from me for this suggestion. In fact make more items to summon more summons with damage changes to compensate.
Conversion: hope nothing changes. I am always finding myself wishing for more items with conversion not less. Please find other methods.
Pierce damage changes: no opinion as long as changes keep the game healthy. This includes cunning and such.
The most important thing at the end of the day is that changes do not limit or remove builds from a reasonable standard which I feel can be done.
I see many people still mention the fantasy argument.
You guys need to remember that the caster variant has 7 singlerare items. And while it’s still fantasy due to the rolls it has, legit version of this build with enough farming, i believe, is very much capable of breaking 4mins as well (and it requires less precision in piloting) which is outside of the balance goal.
I vaguely remember someone posting a build in vanilla that could summon like 6-10 Spirits before they became permanent.
Do you think it is possible to correct the balance without touching the third blade spirit? Simply transferring it to certain things will obviously cut down on the variability of assemblies, even if they are memes.
