We hear your feedback regarding stone frustrations. First off, I’ll point out that we are working on endgame resource solutions so your town doesn’t ultimately utterly deplete the map of resources and you have to start over before your town is finished. Things such as deep mines, quarries, etc. are on the horizon for endgame solutions.
That said, we’d like to hear more about how you guys are spending your stone in the early to mid-game. When you feel you’re constantly fighting for additional stone, is it because of walls? Cobbled Roads? A shrine for every household?
Hi there, not sure if I should be replying here; I see it says dev discussions, please move to the right place if need be.
So I found out the hard way that it seems that without tools, your settlers will not be able to harvest stone. Once I cracked that code (don’t know why it took me so long) I found that I suddenly had a lot more stone available to me.
However, the demand for stone in the game is very high and I’ve been having to import loads of it. I like to try and tap as many hunting, fishing, foraging areas as I can, and to reduce travel time I build root cellars sort of nearby. I’m not sure if the ox wagons come and collect the resources or if the settlers take it to storage themselves (I have noticed a big issue with supply - loads of iron ore, both smelters have none in storage and workers say 'unable to work) so I figured it would help to build storage closer. Root cellars, when built in this number, consume huge amounts of stone.
Also what’s very frustrating is that I want to build a wall to keep raiders out, but the amount of stone needed is very high and it’s making me think it’s more worth my while to build wooden palisades. The stone walls/gates get trashed in no time by the raiders (even when I have towers and archers around) and so it just seems like a waste.
I also very much enjoy upgrading paths for the speed benefit but also simple the aesthetic. Perhaps the stone roads could add a little bit to the desirability to make it more cost effective? So far, I’m not noticing much benefit having my settlers move faster.
I do really think that there needs to be a better solution for stone mid-game at least and/or reduce the overall stone consumption in the first two tiers. It’s becoming a real challenge to keep the settlement going smoothly because my laborers are constantly fetching stone from miles away and it’s causing a massive knock-on effect in the rest of the settlement.
I think it definitely depends on the map type. I played through to over 200 people a few times on alpine valleys where I built fieldstone walls around my fields and eventually stone walls around the whole town, having plenty of stone the whole time.
The first time I played a lowland lakes map I realized I was absolutely going to have to rethink that and was scrounging for stone just to build anything by tier 3.
For town with 250 people population on medium map nearest stone source enough for make full cobbled road tier 2 well for each 4 houses, about 20 gardens and about 5 tier 2 watch towers. To complete stone wall far expedituion or market trade need.
This is rough estimate depends of map type.
Maybe I am just cheap and frugal, but I have not been having the same stone issues that others have reported. That isn’t to say I have a lot of it, but I have at least 100 on hand at any given time. I am on my first town in the lowland lakes area (medium size map), which isn’t known for having tons of stone around to the best of my knowledge.
I find things like cobbled roads and stone walls to be an unnecessary expenditure when faced with the real value multipliers at late T2 / early T3: i.e. desirability buildings and advanced industry. Why spend stone on a wall when I can add a second (or even third) layer of palisade to my defenses on the cheap? I have mitigated the speed bonus from cobbled roads by simply building storehouses at a midpoint between my city and my resource camps outside the walls, thus reducing the travel time for my villagers who work out there. With these stone savings, I then turn those resources towards foundries, bakeries, shrines, etc. without any worry about running low. I can supplement with the odd purchase from a trader if I want to boost my numbers past 100 as well.
Essentially what I am getting at is I think the primary issue is people want to use a finite resource like it is infinite, and then turn around and be all like “what happened?” when they run out. Folks, you’ve got to set up a stone budget and spend it wisely otherwise you’ll crash your own economy.
Since no one is going to budget like that, reducing the overall costs of roads and walls might be a good solution. Maybe there should be a mid-tier wood and stone based wall that is stronger than a palisade, but weaker than a full stone wall that requires less stone overall?
@Bahumgrub I think you are right. I think that this is a survval city builder of sort, so finite resources are part of the game.
I also understand that there are people that want to play this without the survival aspect.
Looking at dwarf fortress, you always look for the best spot for your fortress, without aquifers, and with lots of metal. And going a different route is a challenge. Same in here, I would choose a map where stone is abundant.
So, maybe implement a map like in dwarf fortress, that will let you pick a spot? That could be a separate unity scene, where you could just apply modifiers to the initial map generation.
Or add the option for infinity stone in the map selection.
I do not have a problem with stone, because i buy it from traders. But I understand that some people do not see this as a core part of a city builder.
I started my second game on a small map, and when I had stone I gradually upgraded the roads to Cobbled Roads. Later on when I realized that stone is very limited I regret upgrading all my roads and thought that in the next game I would only upgrade main supply routes. The thing is: with upgraded Houses you also want Cobbled Roads so your town looks good.
Upgrading the walls, which becomes kinda necessary as the raid sizes increase, is super expensive. Also a lot of decorations and the late game buildings cost a lot of stone.
I ended up in a situation where I had no stone in storage, no stone resource on the map and all of a sudden 20+ of my buildings had the message that they needed repair (they were at 33%). But I had no stone and no traider sold it for multiple years.
The problem with stone is that it is super crucial, but a resource that doesnt regrow and is hard to get by else. With Clay and Bricks you have 2 items you can buy from a trader, same with Sand or Glas, Iron Ore or Iron, etc. But Stone is only 1 item, and a trader has to sell exactly that item for you to get the resource.
Budgeting resource usage based on map type is critical
Double / triple palisades is an option but also very resource / labor intensive when you are sitting around 150-200 people. That is a lot of labor going to offsetting a scarce resource
There are a few things I think that could be done to make a multi-layered approach that allows for various play styles:
Add trader reputation. The more you buy and sell from the (short list of) vendors, you build up a reputation with them. Once you get to X reputation, and you have upgraded your trading post to the top level, have the option to create trade routes. IE lowland lakes can trade with alpine exchanging X clay for Y stone (or sand, gold ore, iron ore, etc.)
At Town Center Tier 3, have a new building / profession unlock: Prospector. This would function like an explorer. You send them out to survey / prospect various areas. This would allow you to plan ahead for end game “mines”. Setting up roads, logistics, defenses etc. in advance.
At town center Tier 4, unlock the ability to build the “endgame” mines.
Some minor rebalancing of stone (and other resource) consumption.
Maybe also have an option to create your own trader. Load them up with what you want to sell and some gold, tell them what you want them to bring back and at what prices, and then send them out. They could then travel to the “towns” the other traders come from.
All of these things would contribute to a nuanced and more easily balanced resource solution.
IE by endgame you should have supply chains in place to ensure you can fully maximize your settlement.
As an aside, playing a lowland lakes game at the moment and it is extremely frustrating that I can smoke all the things but I can not preserve ANYTHING. My trading post is maxed out and I get three traders a year. I get a SMALL amount of glassware about once every 7-8 years. Nowhere near enough to keep a shop running. Additionally I have never once been offered sand by a vendor in this game so making my own is also not an option.
This is another possible use of the reputation system with Traders. At lower reputation levels you could request items to improve the chance of it being offered next season. Later when you have enough of a relationship built up, you can setup specific trade routes to ensure a steady(ish) supply.
I played 16 different maps and never felt the stone was a problem, the management of camps to get stone is fun, also you can move and change the area of recollection of the building manually makes all more easy. Is true sometimes you need to chose in what you’ll use the stone and prioritize some over another constructions and wait to collect more to continue building. Use stone in roads must be rewarded and impact in the attractive , Making the area at least 5 points more attractive.
The real problem is sand, we need more nodes of sand.
Stone is fine, but from the logic, you can cut it from mountains as well. So yes, add this kind of mine (pit) should be fine. Real problem for me is in logs (wood). 7 working camps plus 16 workers just clear almost all trees and I run out of wood. Resuply via traders is fine for a year, but not each time trade have it. Some kind of forester should be fine or possibility to replace wood for coal with lower consumption rate (because in real you need less coal then wood to keep same temperatures over time).
yeah… but in real world farming theres new stone every few years on the field, it “rises” from deep within the earth. not a lot, but perhaps in game on max field size like 5-10 stone per 3 year cycle, need to adjust for balance
i got 250 pop with 2 workcamps for wood, evrey other year i change the workplace around and got no worry at all. so like 6 different locations for wood, cut grown trees 2 years and change to next location.
i dont use coal at all, got a 8k clay deposit near town. pottery at max performance.
i buy bricks, tools, weapons and soon glassware… rest its my industry
I feel like cobbled roads are extremely expensive on stones and doesn’t seem to give that much return, I can’t even try to have stone walls on my playthrough since I barely have any stones at all, I think some kind of quarry would help a lot but I also agree that shouldn’t be too easy or accessible, maybe only spawn very far from the town hall?
Stone becomes a issue when you want to be a completionist. easy fix, mines should produce a small amount of stone as the waste product for any mine is … STONE! When a player is mining Iron/gold they should get stone also and maybe have a slider like you do for Work camps ( Stone/Ore). This then makes the built mines that have run dry of Iron/Gold still useful as you can now slide the slider over to “Stone”. I have a 276 population on lowland lakes LARGE map and I am out of stone. I have zero walls of stone and no roads of stone. when I get attacked by 40 raiders the damaged they do never gets repaired. I then have to replace the abandoned/condemned houses with Teir one which then starts the downward spiral Maybe add a meteorite event that adds pockets of new resources? could be fun!
Have natural events that do things like
monsoons: = rapid regrowth of tree’s and uncovers new clay/sand deposits also boost to wildlife for a couple seasons. When a monsoon is happening all travel on any roads ( minus cobblestone ) is slowed by 33%. Also flooding can damage structures/homes/crops/fields topsoil etc.
Meteorites: = New Iron/Gold/stone locations but can start fires and/or destroy buildings.
Forest fires: = Sparked by lightning strikes produces coal and fertility of land/soil
I would love to finally be able to continue my large game and actually progress farther rather than regress. All these things also have a side effect of “PROLONGING” your gameplay loop which is a GREAT thing!
I have not had to many issues with stone now that I use the trader as a type of stock market. I buy low sell high even if I don’t need the stuff and use the profit to buy all the stone when a Trader brings it in. Only issue is they rarely sell stone but at least now I’m not sitting at 0! I have no more stone on my map.
I noticed running out of stone on release day, but since then usually an abundance of stone. Multiple 80-100+ Big rocks, but as some have mentioned I guess it depends on map type and how much you build with stone…I mainly focus on walling around farms (and little design features), but only upgrade roads that are high traffic. Other than that, decoration and general building.
I don’t mind the amount of stone, partly because I usually don’t play with raiders enabled, though harvesting and transporting it efficiently is either difficult or I am bad at it - equally likely.
As others have said though, it does feel kind of weird to use field stone for everything. It makes sense for drystone walling around farms, road cobbles and foundations for smaller buildings. It even makes sense for drainage in the decorative gardens but for higher tier full stone buildings either allowing the player to choose between building with field stone or bricks OR introducing a quarry and stone dresser makes a lot more sense and helps out people in low stone maps. Though I suppose making a defensive wall out of bricks doesn’t make the most sense either.