Ah, classic mistake.
You assume the testers test anything!
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That is my general sentiment on this change…it is an Aether/Vitality Necromancer relic and other archetypes emerging from it feels a bit off.
That said, I suppose I can see going in the other direction and embracing the wider use of it and replacing the % Aether bonus with a % All damage modifier. Uroboruuk was such a smart fella, maybe he dabbled in other magics.
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Can confirm, this patch made me two feet shorter!
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Woot!
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I mean…that can be said for any build. There will be min-maxers that will squeeze every last bit out of a build, and there will be everybody else. It is important to consider performance in all forms, but it is also fair to say that some builds will be harder to play than others and that difficulty should, ideally, be rewarded with a few %'s better performance.
When that gap is too wide, then adjustments need to be considered of course, but every build is realistically going to show a difference between the average player and the elite builder.
Or you disagreed with something we changed I guess? Not even sure what you’re referring to from last patch that was so outrageous.
Even Reaping Arc, as shown by this very thread, is not some wild outlier that’s destroyed the game’s balance. Sure, there are a couple exceptions that require further scrutiny, but I don’t see it as an all hands on deck alert some are making it out to be.
We’ve certainly made mistakes with tuning before, but I wouldn’t say this was one of them. I enjoy productive discourse with the community. While this topic started out a bit rocky, it ultimately yielded great results and the skill can be nudged next update while remaining a great new gear choice for several new builds.
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i dont?.. at least i don’t remember anything at the moment. there were some minor things, but they are too minor in a great scheme of things (if there’s one)
i was more referring to all the fuss around DEE (especially fire one), imo it could had been solved much earlier if necessary data had been gathered. and it’s not that data harvesting is something complex in this case (still not sure that fire/chaos DEE became viable though, yet to test). same goes for retal i guess. it’s being balanced since the very first FG patch or am i wrong? there’re also examples of some concepts being pushed (bleed Vire) with every patch, but still strugling to be viable. i unironically believe that the reason is lack of testing.
guess it has something to do with “The myth of sisyphus” reference, right?
This does go for players as well not just Praetorians. Common reminder here that Praetorians are exactly the same as you and me when it comes to voicing feedback with the exception that they see patch notes before we do and that patch notes are always subject to change over time.
In this case, you don’t just mention but imply that some concepts like Bleed VM are being pushed with multiple patches (multiple being the keyword here rather than just a singular patch), so if you think data needs to be collected to show that these concepts are underperforming or in extreme cases fundamentally won’t work, then you are always free to collect and present the data yourself in exactly the same way as the first thread’s post. If Zantai over here agrees then changes do happen.
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This.
There’s more of “you” than “us”. We are also entirely voluntary. We also all have different playstyles and what we do in-game. Some of us like early game. Some end-game and Crucible/SR etc. We just get the build and play it like how we play it. Noone is going down Zantai’s gargantuan changelog tick-for-tick testing every single thing in it.
Plus, as is readily apparent “testing” continues via you all here on the forum after release and you guys have just as much of an impact on any subsequent changes Zantai enacts as any Praet.
For my part I would say to consider the Praets as merely a “buffer”, ensuring there are no (or few) serious technical issues affecting the player base at large after an update.
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Also no matter how extensive testing is, and how big testing stuff is, you can never outtest a millions user doing their best to break your game. You can test all day, then someone comes in, put pineapples on pizza and congrats - new meta
As for Reaping arc itself - I personally agree that it does not need converter. In my opinion vit is already extremely well supported damage type and no need to give it one more exclusive toy to play with. %WD nerf - sure, higher energy cost - sure, maybe even slightly less affected targets, but no inbuild converters
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Both understand but a bit bummed since we have bonemonger, shadow queen, and the MI mace or Arcanor that all provide considerable elemental support for necro. Necro actually started getting all the most interesting elemental tools outside of scion!
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To anyone that starts complaining and will start to complain about double rares used in the testing: Be reminded that almost every build has double rare versions, and thus if double rare build A is stronger than double rare build B, then non double rare build A should also be stronger than non double rare build B except when build B has a non MI defining item.
Again, I don’t think a game should be balanced around underoptimizations. That doesn’t mean casuals are ignored, unless you’re the type of casual who wants all buffs and no nerfs.
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Maybe Fire/Lightning to Vitality conversion would make more sense over Ele to Vit? Or is the idea here to kill Cold RA along with the untested memes of Fire and Lightning RA?
Also I think new RA not only shines light upon the issues of 2h meta, but Spellbinder meta as well. Why am I not surprised that the best build is once again Spellbinder? RATA builds are nerfed multiple patches in a row because their DPS is too high for their survivability, but Arcanist and especially Spellbinder seem to go under the radar.
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Pedantic and irrelevant. He obviously meant the majority of the people posting in the thread.
While we don’t know 100% that you grinded out runs, we also can’t assume otherwise. However it is common sense to do a few runs though for the sake of showing fast times, that’s just normal.
Yeah sorry dude, now you’re off your rocker. Feel free to click the third blue icon of buffs. Look at that, it ups the stats! Anyway, his build is FAR more realistic than yours. If you seriously think “realistic” builds all use double rares, you’re completely lost. His build is plausible, you can craft the weapon for crying out loud. And your fantasy build doesn’t actually exist, you GDStashed it. Read that last sentence a few times, and then talk to me about “realistic”.
This is like saying Usain Bolt runs marathons in realistic times. Sure bud, we’re all at that level too.
Oh man, that’s a good one. Using legendary sets, craftables, and other endgame items is apparently underoptimizing because they aren’t top tier greens. You are actively saying the game should be balanced around double rares. Where do I even start with this logic… Big Z save me!
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It’s always been fluid how many Praetorians actually test due to various reasons; they move on to other games, get burnt out on GD and need a break, real life gets in the way, etc. Pretty much the same as anyone else who plays the game.
The last couple of times Zantai’s asked for players to apply to join the Praetorian ranks
but with no more major new content on the horizon I doubt we’ll see such again any time soon.
As powbam said there are a lot more non-Praets than there are Praets and your input is just as valid once you get your hands on a patch as ours is which is why there are hotfixes and further balancing after a patch comes out. We’re not infallible or all-seeing/knowing so the more eyes to spot problems the better. We just get a look at stuff before you all do so can give our feedback a bit sooner, that’s the only difference.
I think the logic is this:
- it is easier to compare BiS builds with eachother because there is a spectrum of “non BiS” versions of every build, so by comparing the best A vs the best B you can get a better control
- BiS A > BiS B => notBiS A > notBiS B
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Hmm okay, this makes more sense. I would still say this only gives you a rough sketch of balance. Purples and blues can offer unique set abilities and bonuses, you would miss out on things if you went all greens. Take build comparisons with a grain of salt.
No one has ever said that BIS = double rare affix greens in all slots…
The problem with his build is not the color of the items, but the choice of them, especially the weapon which was designed for one skill only and not only is missing flat or ANY relevant bonuses for the build, it also doesn’t have AS for crying out loud.
Realistic version of the fantasy build, with singlerares, is extremely easy to assemble - and to farm for because the items involved are very common, and MIs now drop with increased chances of relevant affix. And i even gave Alex this version right after he asked for it. The way he ignored it is very similar to how you managed to ignore
this line in the very post you quoted. That’s very weird.
In any case, i suggest to focus on the topic and stop throwing random s**t into the faces of people peacefully providing data. Provide your own data and let others to judge upon its validity. Data trumps all.
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If this was ever the case the hail mamba meme builds I posted would’ve been the best builds in the game 
Nothing gives you a perfect picture of balance. However by making the comparisons BiS to BiS, there are less parameters out of your control that will come into play. It’s the same way as irl stuff like laboratory tests. You want all factors to be under your control, meaning all differences in results will be either due to your own mistake or due to the difference on the tested subjects itself.
Greens in many slots have as much unique abilities as blues and purples. And also we’re comparing builds here. Not single items or skills. Even in this thread while it’s about Reaping arc, we’re testing builds with reaping arc, not just reaping arc itself as that would provide a very incomplete view of the situation.
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The cold’s there so that the big flat from Soul Harvest isn’t so easy to convert to whatever your damage of choice is.