I have of late, but wherefore I know not, lost all my mirth

Grim Dawn Public Test Discussion
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i find this PTR to, exhaust me, in ways unlike before.
Lots of changes which seemingly stems for FoA reasons, something that not only wont apply for who knows how long, 3-6-8months …1½ years yet? but regardless will leave people not immediately jumping to FoA with this disjointed FG state, with things intended for FoA but not quite FoA able.

“rant”:

it’s actually worse than i expected,
lost skill points (+4 reaping -5 omen), and now has to somehow magically find 10pts to max Wrath (it doesn’t have it), just to end up with less RR than before, while losing conversion to Omen, and there is no way to obtain the vit conversion on a 2hander setup too, nevermind getting partial conversion just gimping it using NB belt…

Every current cold morgo reaper/breaker is going to have to be redone, because a set change, “that kinda does make sense”, because Vit SS has little support; but again from new cold set first arriving in FoA (and yes that set looks awesome, but still)

Radaggan is just gone, nvm Vit sigils before being doable being put down ol’ yeller style, losing 50% sigils is just massive and the dmg compensate doesn’t even get close even on Sentinel, again because FoA mechanic intention, but also feels horrendous to play now because of CD.
Why, because Radaggan went from being a Sigil-set now to a DE-set; intended first for FoA (ignoring Deceiver was already meme/not using sigils, but sigils/RoK is just horrible currently again awaiting FoA potential, if at all). Sigil Sentinel might never have been the actual intended build, but it’s sure getting hammered home now because everything is about DE from upcoming FoA interaction.

Korba RoS spam is “gone”, doubled the cooldown, compensated by “doubled” dmg on paper so seems fine; yet effective dmg is similar and dps less/halved, but it feels extra awful because of the spam difference being that significant too.

Squishy low armour NBs lost 12+% phys res getting compensated for by couple hundred armour (low base armour = low %gain), while also requiring extra skill points to invest into phantasmal armour on top
^extra skill point requirements going around a lot for necros/occultist/NBs because RR changes, which is more or less fair(/unfair) depending on the setup having an easy(er) time freeing those points (eg poor morgo ritualist)

“Confusion” about suggestions for ex Greaves of Ill Omen being seemingly “ignored”, while still boosting other items.
Speaking of item “buffs”, i feel like some are just cosmetic which makes it that more puzzling. I know and understand the stance of not getting everything freebie and Crate don’t like/enjoy procs being too powerful, but having tiny 12-15 flat RR “bonuses” just comes off weird in the grand scope of things/build’s stats.
(but i might just need see the bigger picture unlike our Overlords’ wiser gaze)
More so it seems like some feedback gets “ignored” because of future big pictures stuff/FoA things only we can’t account for sans tidbit reveals

Sunder effect-interaction drastically changing 180 out of nowhere? cool i guess, but why.

Morgo set changes i can “get over”, hassle of slapping new armours, smoll sadgeness adjustment period perhaps, and transmogs is a thing, lord knows homebrew memes get collaterally affected frequently anyway. It might be more a mild symptom of things
Korba RoS cd i’m not enjoying, fever taking hold
Radaggan redesign i’m absolutely hating, we’re calling the ambulance.

*we’ve already talked GD RR reliance/changes and devos to death so that i’m leaving out here

“TLDR”:

FoA impact

I get that charges is a significant mechanic change even for FoA arrival and will have considerable impact on damage effects.
But, and i can not emphasise this enough, spam/pseudo spam and CD changes is more than just dmg balancing, it’s about comfort and feel of play. Going from being able to hold 1 button down be it either from low enough cd to spam, or allowance from dps/survival, to being forced to add more for button/dmg or survival compensation is meaningful in and of itself build and gameplay-wise.

While i know it’s probably ridiculously far fetched by now, i would probably urge to reconsider making certain drastic changes “now” applicable for things only to FoA coming “later”.
That is to say apply these changes with/on FoA release vPatch, not for FG and pre FoA state patch version.
^Radaggan Sigil changes imo, and if Banana’s take is anything to go by DE too, would probably suggest to roll back even with FoA charge mechanic in mind. CD Sigils just feels like a horrible change regardless.
*in the case of Radaggan Sigil there there is also a thematic and mental feel/satisfaction change ofc; 10-12 sigils look cooler than 5-6

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Yes, many changes are made for FoA. And it’s hard to say a change is good, bad, appropriate or irrational, as we cannot actually access new mechanisms and new items. Misadventure shows many interesting things and hugh changes, but we cannot touch them, we can only fantasize. We don’t know when FoA will be accessable.
To begin with, I thought FoA would come on after v1213/4/5. So disappointed to see a new PTR went out. So, how long will this PTR last? Then, how long is the interval between v1216 and FoA?

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I think directions of the changes there are good. It’s a shame that some meme builds got destroyed in the proccess but imo it’s for the best.

I am not sure what’s up with those Sigil changes, haven’t looked into it honestly. Are low cd Acid Sigils no more? Is there a reason for it?
Other than that Acid RoK should rock, Acid DE maybe eventually too. I agree that “future proofing” things that only semi-work should not be the way tho.

1 second cd RoS should still be possible with Briathorn, right? That is more than enough to enable that playstyle (I forgot is phys to cold conversion there yet?)

I somewhat agree here. Some Nightblades gained quite a bit from this change while others lost more than they gained. For example dw Blademasters were known to be able to muster high armor values along with good physical resist. Nowadays they have no physical resist and a bit higher armor values, but for example Pierce Infiltrators would have similiar armor values while having more phys res. In other words, another additive armor multiplier is not as hot when you already have one and then points to Phantasmal Armor have to be pulled out of magician’s hat or something.

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-1.5s cd has been removed.

because of new items/new modifiers in FoA. :sweat_smile:

this is why we say

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like i said, i can see it make sense, it’s going to be a mere adjustment period for actual cold ss breakers/reapers and my personal ritualist being collaterally affected i can stomach even if still sadge, so that’s the least of it and merely symptomatic.

yes, but it’s a huge dps loss (almost 50% sheet cold/even ignoring phys etc), and as mentioned tangible feels much worse compared to previous

yes, low cd sigils gone, acid sentinel got a roughly 25% acid dmg bump, but went from 12 sigils down to 6
Rationale posted so far was DE getting charge mechanic in FoA so that will/should bump sigil dmg up the final bit
Ignoring the clunk of using DE+Sigils as Banana posted, and so far no reveal of Deceiver impact, but ofc tosses sentinel out the window and forces you into to DE as cabalist/regardless vs currently not being mandatory.
*i would speculate there is “something” to come for Sigil/RoK deceivers in FoA ofc, but leaves them without “now”, and ofc likewise sentinels left hanging
But dmg scaling FoA charge mechanic aside, having to use extra buttons just doesn’t feel good (imo) even dmg can get bumped

So it’s like a double thing on the RoS and specially Sigil front.
Builds having to wait for dmg compensation being gated off for FoA, but also just feels worse in terms of gameplay/comfort of 1button spam/pseudo spam

and i’m not even a minmaxer, so i’m not even going to begin to speculate about true dps gains/loss, current optional v future, and vs charge mechanic impact, i’m mostly dealing with how X build “felt” yday, and how it feels “today” from my gameplay/casul pilot side.
And dmg/dps impact aside of taking longer to kill things, the mere CD change feels even more unpleasant too - an i don’t see how FoA charges changes that other than dmg, (and also leaves FG pre-FoAed “now”)

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Since I haven’t tested Korba RoS myself yet, two questions:

  • what’s the cd now with Briathorn?
  • did phys to cold conversion arrive yet?

Yeah, that one is a shame. Maybe that one change could’ve been postponed till FoA’s onslaught mechanic is actually introduced into the game.

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0.9whatever invisible decimal with the high cdr rolls
no phys conversion yet, so sheet dmg is like 125k high with 170k dps
older patch also has 125k sheet dmg with 350k dps at 04somethin0.5sec cd
again, dps/dmg gain can easily be made up, but it feels noticeable worse just sustain wise to have to wait twice as long for heal

and even then preferably not at all, since it’s actually a neat playstyle even if suboptimal time/clear speed wise :sweat_smile:

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very much agreed, it’s basically what i try to build around a lot. and it really is only about how it feels to play. but as soon as i saw onslaught i knew all that new focus wasn’t for me. happens, i have very much tempered my expectations quite a bit (or at least i think i tried to :stuck_out_tongue:).

i mean quite a few of the usual playtesters are probably in fangs closed beta? parallel development, cross-contamination bound to happen? but ye, i’m not exactly a fan of seeing fangs items in replies to test patch threads. put that stuff in public test off-topic. :stuck_out_tongue:

fleshwarped shard was a weird one, now loses fire/lightning rr on an ele weapon, but oh well. i had only ever used it once for a fire/lightning bone harvest defiler (which did surprisingly well). so turning it into something that is more widely usable seems reasonable even though i still want my weird stuff that makes no sense in the game. everything streamlined and neatly falling into place in a build is no fun, maybe i need to start teasing z that it seems like “d4 theorycrafting”. :thinking:

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Mythical Mark of Calamitous Desires: added 100% of Physical dealt as Cold modifier for Ring of Steel

Implications of using this medal in korba should be obvious. Personally, I have no interest in it (or spam ros).

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oh so that’s where it went :sweat_smile: my bad then, will change from gutworm and redo dmg comparison :+1:
*i couldnt’ be arsed to uninstall PTR for 1.5 on this so used an even older install i had ready

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anywhere from 10-20 k more dmg on 1.6 whether we use grasps or not
with still much less dps ofc (still double the CD) but goes up 20k dps to 190-200k
*and this is with Lethal Assault up

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And that’s my biggest (or one of) gripe about the PTR so far; idk it just feels like a cheap no name band aid that doesn’t even work very well.

I must have missed this?

Idk overall the changes FoA bring will be wild, kinda like a more crazy 1.2 vs the 'old" 1.1.9.8 changes (and honestly those changes themselves made me put down the game for a long while) so it’s definitely understandable to be wary or perhaps weary of these changes.

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sunder now enhances debuff, and stacks increasingly multiplicatively, where before it didn’t

fun little screenshot of Moggy nuking my res by 219 :laughing:

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(and not it wasn’t just a tooltip issue)
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120-140 flat cold with 1 second cd is definitely cooking territory.

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i’m not saying it’s not cooking, i’m saying “feels bad man”/it feels noticeably worse
again, even ignoring the technical/sheet dps loss because FoA charges/new pseudo dw scaling; slapping half has often just feels worse with survival and procs.
It’s the same gripe i have with sigils, it’s not primarily about the dmg(tho it’s ofc also tangible), but just that gameplay/“casul pilot wise” it’s less comfortable than before

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Boy am I glad that I skipped Radaggan when choosing build to play Apostate with (or Decevier for that matter). Having the set functionally bricked till FoA release…

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Other than the bug with the missing Rune of Kalastor modifiers, in what way is the set bricked now?

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Well wasn’t this cooldown increase caused by the fact that RoS now hits with two hands? So damage has effectively doubled this test patch.

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I considered it for rapid application of SoC - basically sigil spam build. That’s clearly not its role anymore. I also suspect that Onslaught stacks will be a major balancing factor for the set, kinda chaining in to Necro side of things - but that’s pure theoretical complaint for now.

I also have… ahem, “experience” with DE/rune playstile. It’s not an experience I would actually advise to people on its own. With Onslaught charges absent in current build, that’s a double no-no.

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doubling the damage mods does not make up the loss of cdr as that was a multiplier on the base damage of the skill. the assumption was that the sigil part also has to rely on onslaught.

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except since it’s apparently pseudo dw scaling dmg didnt’ double, as per the screenshots :wink: it’s up 10-20k :sweat_smile: - with conversion, with grasps bonus dmg
prior had no phys conversion and no grasps wd gloves

but again, all this moping is primarily about comfort and gameplay changre rather than purely clear speed numbers. It (somehow) ending up being an effective dps loss/“nerf” is just icing on the pre-FoA cake :sweat_smile:

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