oh, for some reason i thought that AQC has same amount of targets as shears.
anyways, i doubt that it’s about item procs, the only ones that deal any decent damage are shuroths eyes, and they have 1.5 cooldown. and still, it’s not a two seconds difference, damage there is negligible compared to fervor.
Considering hybrid pet builds (player/pet balance)
Pushing offensive stats on most pet items to be on par with non-pet ones would make it actually possible.
Hybrids then only need to split skill and devotion points for the player/pets and not all gear slots (buffs/auras/some devos already boost player and pet at the same time). So they could, with clever synergy, compete with other builds.
Balance wise its “not a big deal” even if done minimaly with just raising the numerical offensive values already there and would open up many more builds wich would enrich the whole game experience.
Sure it is a workload of many hours and much brainpower to invest and calibrate. Can understand if its something you as devs would never consider to implement till the finalization of the game (last patch would be 2.0 i guess)
Somehow a sad unfullfilled void of potential is left with weapons like Bane of the Winter King or Dracarris…
…And every time a newbie picks up the game and thinks:
“Oh i can have pets and deal damage too! 
”
…he would get to ultimate and his dreams would be crushed. He would search for solutions on the forum and post his build with questions:
“What have I done wrong? Is it my fault?” 
…an elitist non-pet build player would show up and say:
“Hey noob! Forget it, you cant play pets and also do any meaningful damage as a player.” 
…for thousands of years such threads would appear, cause the devs never brought up attention, and the newbie tears cried would fill the cthonic realm till they spill over into Cairn to haunt little children with nightmares unimaginable…
Well, I think you have to be a little bit nuanced on the hybrid question, Nola. Crucible 170 and SR 75 are already on the higher end of…endgame. Most people will not reach that level of efficiency on their character(s), or even if they would, they wouldn’t know because they just don’t play at that level.
Hell, you did an hybrid build that can beat Morgoneth and reach Crucible frigging 160! So it can work. It just doesn’t work as well as the pure options.
We have to remember that Crucible 151-170 and SR were mainly added to provide suitable challenge for optimized builds, and were never meant for all characters to reach.
It has been told before, there is a bias toward high-end builds on the forum, and rightfully so, after all the pursuit of performance is an exciting one. Even with the [sr-] tag, it’s intimidating to post a somewhat sub-par build, even if you think it’s the best iteration of a specific concept.
But from experience, if you set your goals just a little lower, then much more builds are viable, Hybrid included. Now go make a guide for your Trozan/birb hybrid!
Ok, i show you how nuanced i can be…
As an example, i take the ghol set and you can by looking at it transfer the same principle to like every single pet item in the game. Some have no dmg stat whatever (thats ok -> design choice) and some have small ones. But there are few or none that have healthy values wich could open up builds to plan for.
It has on every piece a weak ~40% all damage increase.
@Zantai What is this supposed to be? Some kind of universal damage set identity?
To make meaningless damage numbers from Bone Harvest not that small, so mobs dont laugh at you when you just cast it for the buff to pets? And that -0,8 CD to BH means nothing cause dmg isnt supported? Why take away the choice of the option to put some points into BH to supplement pets with some damage? Would even give the set an acid mod for BH on the shoulders to make it not a pain to realize. As an side effect builds could use just those shoulders if they wanna play Acid BH but without the need to go for pets. Has build variety been suppressed or expanded?
Is this how a Acid Pet Set that has modifiers to Bone Harvest (-0,8s CD, +Range) should have its damage stats implemented?
Thinking with a sober mind i cant get how in creating those (all other such design choices in pet items) has led to giving them alldmg%. Lack of creative imagination?
Why not Acid/Poison dmg%?
~100-200% like you see at all other items
Has the desgin process with the split with player/pet stats/resis (dont let me elaborate how it was done in TQ) led to the decision to god forbid dont give pet items player damage?
And i am asking… Why?
So there is one extreme and the other, and nothing inbetween aka hybrid (getting slowly sick of the word)
Because that was a design choice?
Then its weak design choices for me personally! I respect you still dont cry <3
Making dedicated HYBRID items wich are… kinda useless and a bait to frustrate players with failed builds cause they havent cognized how its nearly impossible to push their selffound chars through ultimate difficulty without studying the forums and receiving the master title in game mechanincs.
I for one can see how bringing those changes would be like a breath of fresh air that would shake the whole compendium up without much difficulty. (Dont tell me you do not understand how it is to work that through, i am not stupid and can count to seven three times, times two)
Arguments with nuances, lets go show me nuances…
This isnt pointed to your egos btw, its about of getting grip to an objective view of the game and players who dont study the forum and get stuck cause they make the mistake to think pets can go along with sth to discover they get crushed at ulti cause… “You didnt focused your skill points enough…” “No, its because their is lack in gear support wich could be ez realized etc etc etc”
Back to start, i could repeat myself endlessly, but maybe you cocgnize it better when doing so 
Have a good day dear community 
Aye, just like I also work and change my pet builds for years (actually true on Fluffy Squishy) and it still hasn’t got to its final result (since patches are still rolling out).
But I don’t give people a blank GT link to follow, or an outdated one, or the wrong one or anything like that. I provide the best I can do with my knowledge, skill and experience.
And incase anyone jumps at me for it, I do make custom builds for people who request it even if it doesn’t fit my own personal “vision” of the ideal pet build.
Just one small issue I see here.
Allow me to introduce to you, the Bottle Fwuffy - Pet Battlemage, Fwuffy's Harbinger - Pet Dervish & Crazy Fwuffy - Pet Purifier
Those are all meme builds using 0 Pet based Masteries. Perhaps I am setting my standards too high, but I would expect a proper Hybrid Pet build to outperform atleast those, balance wise.
Though, personally in regards to this particular issue, it is more that I am a little bit sore still due to trying to go for a Hellhound + Rifle build way back before AoM and struggling to even complete the Campaign > proceeding to uninstall the game and only getting back into it because someone gifted me AoM for free.
You most certainly do and I commend you for that. I musn’t be following the thread clearly enough (it’s kinda gone all over the place) because that’s not what I thought the quote was about. My mistake.
it wasn’t about that… Maya said Crate not releasing the expansion in a state that ‘needed’ no patches is akin to Maya selling you a blank page and promising to paint the Mona Lisa on it
It is though, unless I am not allowed to hold others to the same standard I hold myself to.
That, I never said.
no it isn’t, but I won’t argue with you, you are too unreasonable to have a discussion with
I am not the one lying here to suit my narrative. You literally put words in my mouth just then to create a strawman you could argue against.
you pretty much did, I was summarizing it
Do specify how any of my words can be summarized as such by anyone literate on the language.
Saying that patches are not justifications for releasing a flawed product does not mean I expect them to release something in a perfect state.
Do you speak the language ? it is right there…
Me: They knew [the Oathkeeper was OP] but did not delay the release because they release patches.
You (direct reply): So, can I sell you a blank piece of canvas that I may or may not turn into the next Mona Lisa?
My summary: “Maya said Crate not releasing the expansion in a state that ‘needed’ no patches is akin to Maya selling you a blank page and promising to paint the Mona Lisa on it”
If you want to argue, yeah, you did not even promise a Mona Lisa, but that is not a point in your favor…
I teach the language or used to anyways.
And yes, I am calling bs on your summary. Not my problem you wish to lie and act surprised if the other party isn’t willing to buy it.
I can see why you no longer do…
fine, I stand by it and the others can be the judge of that. You twist everything around constantly, so I do not particularly care (nor am I surprised) that you disagree.
I very much doubt that given you can’t even comprehend the words on your monitor.
Says the person who believes they know what another person meant more than that person themselves.
And just because you can’t argue logically to form a position to prove me wrong does not mean that I am twisting anything around. Your lack of comprehension or the preoccupation with lying is not my fault to blame.
@grey-maybe did you try to turn everything off (all procs and buffs off, naked char with just two white weapons) and then test different wps combos?
i haven’t done it yet, need to mod some stuff for more objective testings.
Was the original point that, while on one hand yes, Crate releases patches to fix things, on the other hand, the data they use to evaluate and implement fixes each patch is often pulled from player feedback and build performances?
The difference in the example of FG release from what I can understand from following along is that in this situation, Crate was already aware there was a balance issue with Oathkeeper class/Warlord at time of release, and therefore didnt need to evaluate any player feedback or build performance data but instead were already planning to balance it in the first patch following release?
