With the Oathkeeper class, it’s not that they are only for the Witch Gods and Vire. That is just a example, so a Oathkeeper could be for any god.
This is from the class description:
Arkovia was around the same time as the Korvan society. Mogdrogen talked to king Rowan because the pantheon of Arkovian gods, was no longer present to protect them. This due the War of the Gods.
The Korvan lands were not that close to the Arkovian lands. Most people of the Korvan lands perished.
The Erulan empire was very small during that period.
I like this take on the lore. I believe its been discussed before that the WG are not as powerful as they seem (why use the player to do their bidding in the first place) but you’ve laid it out in a clear manner.
This isn’t that contradictory. Even if Mogdrogen was created and participated during the war of the gods, he can still take the time to warn the Rhowari. During the times you talk to him, he does say it takes no effort for him to make avatars in Cairn.
Its actually a popular theory that they are both the same. Lets pretend the war of the gods spanned several centuries. Ultos/Mogdrogen is said be the youngest of the Arkovian gods. He might have been created during the start of the war and had plenty of time over the years to be established as a member of the Arkovian pantheon alongside the older gods.
When he saw that things were not going to go well for the Arkovians (due to culture corruption), he disguised himself as a new deity, Mogdrogen, and warned King Rhowan. Its why the worship of Ultos still exists because Moggy is Ultos with a different identity.
i do believe that either Ulthos created Mogdrogen and he keeps cheering up his daddy, or Ulthos effectively entered the protected witness program, wich would allow us to extend that assumption to other VERY similar cases (aka, Menhir/Vire, Ulo/Ishtak, Azrakaa/Aeon). HOWEVER, given how much intel we got from FG, im starting to believe that all gods are indeed a separate entity on their own, and the overlap is a result of the pantheons (like Zeus with Odin and Thor). So far i can recognize the Arkovian pantheon, the Korvan(?) pantheon, the Three, and “everyone else” (like chthon and the abomination). This would explain the relationship between Empyreon and Korvaak, and why some gods endured and others lost their worshipers.
Apparently we are missing, a 3rd pantheon (the “winning” side of the war), so i expect another big DLC where Crate will expand the lore.
This actually makes sense that he is doing that. Because the Erulan empire was trying to stop the cult of the Witch Gods etc. And before the Grim Dawn the Erulan empire was grown into a massive empire.
An unimportant conversation amongst praets drew attention back to Grim Misadventure 106, previewing Port Valbury:
In re-reading this older post, I stumbled on a curious little detail with respect to Aldritch:
This seems to imply many things that are against assumptions I had made in the game, both specific to Valbury and in general. For one thing, by this wording ‘Aldritch’ is the name of the Aetherial that took over the human ‘Councilor Van Aldritch’. I’m curious whether that’s a coincidence or whether, perhaps, the Aetherial named himself after his human host some time after taking hold of him. Thinking on it more, that’s probably more likely.
Secondly, the ‘shed its human form’ line makes me realize that Reanimators - or at the very least, the archetype of Overlord Van Aldritch - are not fleshwarped humans as I had long imagined them to be. Edit: I guess I could have begun to suspect such a thing given the existence of the Fleshworks, even if not all Reanimators come from there.
On a related note, I’ve also begun to wonder about Aldritch’s scepter. Is that…kinda-sorta…him? Or it, rather. The weapon does produce ‘whispers’ that our character is unable to understand (see the lore text for the epic version of the item: https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/7194) (the legendary has different text) which are all but explicitly in the Aetherial tongue.
It makes me wonder whether any of our other foes might be lurking, trapped or otherwise, in some of our weapons or armor…
May be Aldritch’s scepter is a communication device, and other side ? Maybe high lords of ether in etherworld ( I could not remember the name …eatherhold or something…)
That may be true my friend, check the description of Outcast’s helmet: “You can’t help but feel as if the mask is staring back at you” Maybe aetherials can possess items too.
Decree of the Circle of Five: “Their will, their voice, their command…” It may not be a metaphor, it’s literally them talking through the dagger, something like walkie-talkie. It reminds me of LoL’s Darkins who were trapped in weapons as an eternal punishment, but they learned to possess anyone who uses them and take control over them.
Heart of Theodin Marcell?
Ok I think it’s Decree of Malmouth… so the aetherial Aldritch is possessing both Port Valbury council and Malmouth Council? Or before we get to Malmouth, Van Aldritch is dead so the aetherial goes to Malmouth council, using the same scepter to possess them? Confusion 100
i got some theory about grim dawn’s overall themes. themes like cycles of creation and death, and also the passing of powers through various means.
from what moggy said, there is a natual cycle of life and death to everything in the universe:
-nations rise and fall
-realms are created and eventually decay to nothingness or recycled to new realms.
-primordial gods exist since time immemorial. ascendant/titanic beings appears due to those primordials’ wish. but all of them will eventually succumb to nothingness.
-primordial gods eventually falls into obscurity due to lack of belief, banishment to far away place in galaxy due to external force or they do this willingly. or they got destroyed by something, and their essence scatters over the universe (ulzuin turned into raging volcanoes that devastate korvan lands, due to him realizing in rage how derpy and inconceivable mortals are, thanks to bysmiel. but now, his powers can be used by demolitionists everywhere. profit!).
ascendant & titanic beings appears and disappears like mortals.
so, the primordials (and their successors) represent the force of creation (chthon and the void too, they create suffering). while yugol represent the constant of entrophy claiming anything when their lifetime is up.
about yugol being a threat, i think it will only be a significant threat if somebody decides to take part of yugol’s power to their own ends. yugol (entrophy) is a universal constant. not a tool like how the elementals (fire, lighthning, ice) are tools for creation. using yugol’s power breaks the balance of universe (speeding entrophy).
morgoneth is desperate for his people’s survival because korvaak and his pantheon has been silent for a long time (due to korvaak licking his wounds trying to recover before resuming battle against chthon’s forces). so morgoneth tries to seek deeper knowledge by 1st peering into one of the aspect of ateph (moon deity) - that is, the dark side of the moon.
he eventually discover the law of the cycles. just like dreeg, who gets punished by korvaak immediately for discovering that law and indirectly being forced to become an ascendant guardian that guards that knowledge from any foolish mortal (ironically, this is like a parent berating and teaching harsh lesson to the child for discovering knowledge about dangerous stuff that adults dealt with (things like sex, crime, harsh life of adults, etc).
but unlike dreeg, he receive no guidance from anyone for how to deal with this knowledge. and he slowly spirals into madness, due to staring too long to the death aspect of the cycle (he got too distracted so he doesn’t care about the part where eventually after death, something will be reborn/replace what death has claimed). this is like the real life phenomena “call of the void”, a phenomena like where you suddenly has the urge to fall down from a skyscraper when you’re staying at the edge and looking far down.
then he got mad, convinced that the time of gods, realms, and any living being has passed. he seeks relieve from this madness by embracing nothingness. and voila, some mad desperate person broke the law and makes yugol more active than it should be (yugol, you are a CONSTANT! you shouldn’t be too active or too lazy! just like how 1+1 must be equal to 2, not equal to 3 or 1!).
fortunately, the taken fix this problem. and riggs (he’s most likely an associate of dreeg/bysmiel) with his biceps will defend the knowledge about the iris from any foolish mortal. just like what dreeg do all the time.
however, we all don’t know how the actions of the taken will change that law of the cycles. due to the taken randomly any kind of gears and powers however they want (ughhhh i got so bored with green poison color. i’m feeling blue. maybe i’ll use yugol’s power and yugol sets because i want to see black/blue/cold acid color for today.)
i’m sure there is a special rule that is set aside for the taken. so that whatever they do won’t accidentally broke the universe.
ok, now about the passing of powers, el_chanis recently says something about the overlaps of power between gods:
what el_chanis said makes me think of how powers are passed between gods/ascendants/titans. the methods might be categorized like this:
1.granted as blessing.
we see this happened most frequently. korvaak blessed many ascendants. and any mortals can also get blessed by constellations (celestial beings, concepts of universe) through devotion. some celestials/ascendant are more stingy and sadistic though. chthon, ravager and solael only grant blessings to their cultists by performing cruel acts.
but i haven’t seen any case where a being loses its power when blessing another being (empyrion loses his power and banished to far away place because he choose to bless cairn with his remaining power, perhaps?)
some celestial beings seems to share or pass their power over other celestial beings.
ultos could be a previous form of mogdrogen, or just the hidden master of mogdrogen.
azrakaa and aeon seem to love each other and share their jobs without fuss (they are most likely the constants of time for the grim dawn universe, just like yugol. so they cannot die).
ulo and ishtak could be friends, due to their nature. (ishtak might have perished in the war of the gods, while ulo is hidden somewhere).
menhir/vire most like are friends too, just like ulo/ishtak. vire might be sharing the fate of ishtak, or vire might be merged with menhir to become the spirit of cairn itself… the emissary of the three witch gods that he’s a priest of menhir a long time ago, but switch allegiance to the 3 after dreeg saw him what will happen in the future (he probably learned that menhir is too weak to protect cairn itself, even with many devotions from cult of menhir. and he saw that the 3’s power over eldritch realm is a stronger mean to protect cairn)
2.forcefully taken.
the trio witch gods take korvaak’s power over the eldritch realm as their own. korvaak, however, briefly regained his power in the events of forgotten gods (due to the event of grim dawn causing destruction to cairn and the trio witch’s cults. also due to a single dreeg cultist accidentally summoning feral eldritch beings to temple sanctuary of the 3), also resulting in the 3 losing lots of their power and having to resort to manifest as their mortal persona until the taken rip out korvaak’s loincloth and kick his celestial rear to star wars galaxy.
this also happens to chthon. many celestial gods including empyrion forcefully take chthon’s blood to empower their own creations to their liking (maybe also because chthon is a tyrannical? i dunno, please correct me if somebody finds out that chthon is a decent celestial being before his blood is abused by other celestials).
the conflict between mogdrogen and ravager also implies that mogdrogen usurp ravager’s dominon over the wilds. maybe because mogdrogen need the power over the wilds so that he can create the rhowari cult to survive grim dawn and watch over cairn? because celestial beings require belief from their followers to sustain their existence.
the aetherial faction that invade cairn could also be viewed as usurper that want to wrestle the remnant of their celestial masters’ creations from the mortals to be used as weapons against chthonic forces. it could be said that this aetherial faction want to fill up the empty throne of cairn left behind by the celestials. some aetherials that merged with mortals (krieg, cronley, theodin) showed even greater lust for power, due to the aetherial faction’s strong, longing wish to have emotions and live again.
3.the power is dispersed through the universe.
this is very theoretical. it is implied that empyrion left cairn a long time ago. to combat yugol (perhaps he become somekind of celestial milkyway, or a new concept about the birth of stars). just like energy vs entrophy theory.
oathkeepers and other empyrion devotees can access some of empyrion’s power through difficult method, so perhaps there is a lingering essence/power of empyrion in cairn.
chthon’s blood is dispersed throughout the universe. either granted intentionally as blessing to his followers, or just as a passive resource of power flowing inside the blood of all mortals (many mortals uses chthon’s blood but do not follow him, and they live like usual with some never even hearing about chthon and his blood)
the power of death seems to be a passive constant that can be used by necromancers to their own ends. it isn’t clear if there is any deity that holds absolute domain over death (revenant seems to be more of a concept of death rather than a deity). we also don’t know if death is ruled in the domain of yugol (nothingness/entrophy).
ulzuin’s story implies that he’s transformed into the essence of vengeance and destruction over cairn, starting from him creating volcanoes that ravaged korvan lands forever. the scion of sands (callagadra) has been shown to be a manifestation of the wrath and fury of korvan people against yugol’s forces. so it isn’t far fetched that ulzuin turned from a celestial being into a massive elemental power of destruction that permeates cairn (fire/lightning), a resource to be used by those who seek to bring calamity and destruction to cairn (chaotic beings).
btw lokarr seems to be deeply disappointed in ulzuin, because his mad betrayal towards the mortal and lands he wished to protect just because he want some booty and got tricked then turned into a raging force of nature is very pathetic action for a celestial being whose job is to oversee ceremonies and healing.
the passing of power seems to be another universal law in itself. it could be summed nonrespectively as blessing-abdication-usurpation. and the cycles of blessing-abdication-usurpation continues. just like in titan quest, where the greek gods abdicate the world to be ruled by mortals, yet hades, loki, and the giants tried to usurp the world from mortals. now in gd, mankind’s destiny seems to be the same.
maybe mankind of gd should follow king rhowan’s example. just go live hidden in the wilds, while the 3 witch god cults, aetherials, chthonians, ravagers, yugols, undeads, grobles, trolls, sliths, bandits and whatever else fight each other over the empty throne of cairn. just like the arkovian oligarchs. so that means the winner is going to be mogdrogen and his rhowari, the one that mostly sits on the sidelines and watch the shenanigans happen. winner here being living miserably but dies peacefully to old age.
but… what if the empty throne of cairn itself got sick of all this mess, and proceeds to wipe out everyone on it and reset the game? foreshadowing of new superboss: cairn/empty throne.
I just realized something… Rion the Scholar’s writing, entry 6th.
I assumed until now that the writings he found were some sort of doctored documents added there by Bysmiel (it’s her style) to portray Korvaak as an usurper, as someone who took the Eldritch Realms from the Witch Gods… but then I realized Rion visited Korvan City decades if not a century before Korvaak has been deposed by the Witch Gods, no? So… do those text then hint that Korvaak himself has lied and he stole the Eldritch Realm from some other god, or gods?
Ohhh nice!
I think even in the 5th writings he theorizes that the stories about Korvaak seem something he has heard before - that maybe Korvaak was not the first to use this name, even, and that there are cycles to gods rising and falling and new ones rising in their name.
it could be that there is another 3rd party infiltrating and accusing korvaak as usurper. maybe an unknown celestial.
or bysmiel is much, much older than she looks when she meet ulzuin. remember that bysmiel has collected many trinkets to enhance her power as a witch/necromancer/shapeshifter.
celestials rise and fall. we don’t even know if there’s another older celestials that precedes empyrion & korvaak’s pantheon. the story of the ralyoth forgotten gods in shattered realm supports that.
I am under the impression that Bysmiel and Solael were present at the time Rion was there. (still mortal) They just began with preparations to make Korvaak weaker before assaulting him. That may have taken years for all we know.
Hmm, really? I dunno. Certainly Rion visited after Korvaak already lost his battle against the other gods, as he was no longer seen outside - but also, the other lesser deities like Rahn and Ateph were around in his time. I don’t think they were around by the time Solael arrived (who was the last of them to arrive). Also we know from another writing that Solael quickly angered the priests who sent assassins to make him disappear - likely the events happened soon afterwards. When Rion was there, there was no show of decline yet unlike what some later writings indicate. Also, he would have known about what happened later and would have added it to his writings, no, if he was alive when the Three toppled Korvaak? I mean we know Rion’s writings got published in Erulan and other places - the later expedition’s writings confirm they managed to find the Korvan Empire based on his book.
By the way, does someone has a transcript about what Korvaak says randomly during battle? I had a longer than usual fight against him and noticed he says something about “Burning void”…
Or before we get to Malmouth, Van Aldritch is dead so the aetherial goes to Malmouth council, using the same scepter to possess them? Confusion 100