that might be possible. yet ulzaad is about +physical & internal trauma damage in the constellation. ulzuin is only related to fire+lightning (destructive vengeance) and some healing (former ceremony & healing god).
even so, mogdrogen and ultos is kinda obvious to be the same entity. since moggy moggy has dominion over the wilds and thunderstorms.
Dreeg seems to be always striving gfor “balance”, so despite what they did to Korvaak being selfish… I think maybe Dreeg saw that one day they would be needed to protect Cairn. After all, all occultists (you included if you play as one) get their power from him. Maybe Korvaak would have just let the Aetherials do whatever and like Mogdrogen, would not intervene. Maybe he had to be replaced with gods who are far more active in the mortal world. Of the Three, Dreeg strikes me the most as not being selfish and actually working for some greater goal, something he might have glimpsed when he entered the eldritch realm.
Well Chton/chtonic is a greek word meaning “under/below the earth”. And it has been used in fantasy and comics a lot to refer to evil subterranean or divine beings or demons or such.
Ah finally figured out how to quote someone… new interface is not very user friendly.
Thanks, this is pretty interesting! I tried talking to him afterwards and he said nothing new.
But this means that Barthollem indeed WAS a servant of Empyrion, not Korvaak.
I think it is no coincidence that the Oathkeeper skill “Summon Guardian of Empyrion” conjures beings a lot like him. 
I think devout followers of the gods can be basically ascended to the status of such spirits. They are not undead like ghosts, though, as they are sustained by divine power.
dreeg is arguably the current most active mastermind of humanity then. note that oathkeeper’s skill tree has several transmute that changes Empyrion oriented damage (fire, physical) into Dreeg’s domain (acid, vitality). this is also a reference to the cycle of divine power in cairn. previously, empyrion reign supreme above humanity alongside korvaak. yet after the war of the gods, empyrion disappears and korvaak is imprisoned. dreeg, solael and bysmiel became the master of humanity, surpassing empyrion and korvaak’s hold over humanity (face it, we all need extra skill points if we want to have dreeg’s transmute in oathkeeper tree. that implies in current situation lorewise dreeg is STRONGER than empyrion & korvaak).
still… from the korvan eulogy, dreeg said that he saw potential leader for humanity in solael’s black heart. cruel, but bold leader such as solael seems necessary for humanity to survive in dreeg’s point of view. solael’s dependence on humanity’s vitality (i’m pretty sure he’s a vampire constantly craving for mortal’s life essence, or his survival even depends on them) ensures that solael won’t destroy humanity in madness. he’ll sacrifice those worthy enough to sustain his power (solael cult’s lore note in coven of the three provides the details of the sacrifice), then guide and empower the rest of them.
eh. i think humanity will do fine with the 3 good witches as their leader. they’re not so different from mortal humans after all. korvaak and mogdrogen’s panicked rambling of how the 3 are scheming bad guys that will bring ruin to everything is just a fear instinct that triggers in those two celestial’s mind.
this implies that empyrion’s essence or residues of his power still lingers in cairn. mogdrogen can split himself into many avatars, so i think its possible that empyrion still has some presence in cairn. the oathkeeper’s ascension skill description support this.
So I was reading the Korvan Expedition entries again and I noticed… the wealthy investors who sent some “overseers” with the explorers, they were from Erulan and Malmouth. Could it be they were Aetherial agents? Sent to check on what’s happening in the Korvan basin, or maybe just to recover potential magical artifacts they can use in the coming war?
definitely aetherial agents. they’ve also tried to infiltrate ugdenbog but failed due to ravager and ugdenbog coven’s presence. i do kinda disappointed with how fg is completely lacking aetherial presence (aetherial corruption, aetherial vanguard, or even some random survivors with aetherial influence). at least there are some dead bloodsworn cultists that tried to summon a chthonian being in fg. fg is all about eldritch creatures, the 3 witches and korvaak cult.
Where did you see signs they tried to infiltrate the Coven?
I am convinced that they are no aetherial agents but people(inquisitors) from the Luminari.
See part of the text i copied:
The retinue of babysitters sent by our investors have been asking a number of peculiar questions about the burial habits of the Korvan people, and about the types of objects we might hope to find there; none of which I have answers to. I caught one of them reading an ancient-looking text of some sort the other day. Aurenial Arcanum, the name read. It is a volume I am unfamiliar with, though if I didn’t know better I’d say it was exactly the kind of thing that could attract Luminari attention. He snatched the book closed and hid it in his jacket when I asked what he was reading. His scowl said it all.
Peculiar indeed.
personal theory. since ugdenbog is the domain of ravager and the coven (some small part of it). and because the coven tells us that they also monitor the beasts and magical events surrounding their coven in order to protect themselves.
it could be the normal luminari inquisitors. it could also be aetherials masquerading as luminari inquisitors. since from creed’s diary (or is it kymon’s words? creed and kymon both visits the capital recently before grim dawn anyway) he tells that some colleagues/officials he met in the capital shows strange behaviours that makes him suspicious of them.
Is there any significance behind of the Servant of Empyrion summon from Oathkeepers wearing Korvan styled armor?
maybe its because back in the glorious days of korvan empire, people are allowed to worship empyrion aside from korvaak (since empyrion is korvaak’s brother and they appear to be close allies against the void. also, ulzuin is a son of empyrion that became korvaak’s right hand).
or maybe its just caused by crate’s limited resources.
that being said, i wonder how arkovian and erulan empire is related to the ancient korvan empire. is korvan empire’s territory includes the region of arkovia and erulan empire? or does their territory belong to another unmentioned empire that exists in korvan empire’s period? does empyrion’s worshippers have stronger establishment in this unmentioned empire? who knows.
I believe the Arkovia was present at the same time of the Korvan empire and Erulan was just small (maybe just a few tribesman according to Mogdrogen).
Judging from the notes of Rion the Scholar, some religious practices look similar to other civilizations.
small erulan tribal states according to mog? where’s that quote? maybe i overlooked something from mog conversations.
true. this is some relevant quotes from rion’s 5th entry:
“What I have learned thus far is truly fascinating. As far back as I can go, there seems to be no inconsistency to his presence or domain, no evolution of his worship. It is as if the core of the Korvan religion had somehow remained pure since its inception, quite unusual. It is that or its founders had put a great deal of effort into obscuring its true origins. The texts I’ve perused make it seem as though their rites and rituals are performed today as they were when first prescribed centuries ago.”
"The Eldritch Sun is depicted both as the blessed flame and the dreadful terror of destruction. It seems he is both adored and feared by those that show him reverence, and with good reason; though Korvaak is generally depicted as benevolent to his followers, there are numerous records of disasters or outright cleansings that were attributed to the god’s retribution for mortals displeasing him. "
"Some of these events seem eerily familiar, though I cannot recall why. I suspect there are similar mythos which I have been exposed to in nearby regions. There are also a number of rituals which bear a remarkable similarity to primitive practices I have researched in the past. "
"This leads me to wonder if there are other tribes and civilizations that have been worshiping Korvaak since antiquity, but perhaps by a different name. This is a matter which will necessitate further investigation. "
those similarities in rituals through the ages just from looking at korvaak’s ritual makes me feel that some deities in gd are worshipped by many civilizations with different names. example: mogdrogen is ultos, the shepherd of storms worshipped by arkovian. yet he’s also the god of beasts and wilderness that is the patron god of the rhowari.
i wonder if empyrion got any other aliases. afaik the only civilization with clear lores of empyrion is cairn. arkovian empire lore notes doesn’t mention empyrion. and korvan empire’s lore notes only provides two or something notes that mentioned empyrion.
Cairn is the world. Erulan is just a part of that world.
If you talk with Mogdrogen in Asterkarn Valley:
You would threaten an Ascendant? One who was old when Erulan was but a few tribesmen
In the notes from Rion the Scholar, there is also a part where he reading about Korvaak being a usurper. I believe Solael was already busy trying to erase reverence to Korvaak.
yeah i sometimes misplaced erulan empire with planet cairn. probably because the word CAIRN always shows up in the center of the world map.
that’s what i’m looking for. that definitely means the ancient erulan tribesman worshipped empyrion when they are just a small neighbourly tribes near arkovian empire (which deity is the master patron of arkovian empire? rattosh?), while korvan empire ruled across the sea to the east.
but this mog line also states that he’s an Ascendant. mog is both a titan an ascendant? the two titles can overlap? also more importantly, who created mogdrogen…
yes, this is written in part 6 of rion’s journal:
"I have made a startling discovery while on my latest foray into the Korvan texts. While exploring the vast collection of the Korvan City Library, I briefly escaped the attention of its stewards and found my way to a closed-off archive. Among ancient birth records of some of the most prestigious Korvan families, several ascendants included, I unearthed a collection of texts that appear to shatter some of the core tenets of the very faith that is central to these people’s lives. "
"A large number of the pages were badly damaged, as if whatever ward cast upon them had violently(this is so solael) dissipated. Strangely, the parchment itself appeared newer than some of the records I’ve seen; perhaps someone had restored a damaged record at a later date. The bits that I could make out, however, painted a very different account of the early years of the Korvan faith. "
"Korvaak himself was shown as a usurper (Ahem. trio witches. who’s the usurper here? seriously?), a conqueror of a realm he had no part in making. It is not entirely clear if the Korvaak that is spoken of today is even the same one described in those texts or whether that is the name given to the master of the Eldritch Throne. "
"Another curiosity was the description of the upheaval involved in such a transition of power, a whirlwind of creation and destruction within which were caught the unfortunate believers (does solael rewrite this part? to make korvaak looks like the bad guy that usurp the eldritch throne from the 3 and causes the eruption of korvan lands? or is this genuinely an ominous warning from korvaak for what will happen if someone usurp his throne). Sadly, before I could complete my analysis of the text, one of the stewards discovered my presence in the closed-off archive and promptly chased me out of the building (great job for not detecting solael snooping there oh great steward). "
i added my thoughts in italic there. also, the emissary of the 3 forcefully (and unconvincingly) states that korvaak is a liar and usurper of the eldritch throne when the taken says that korvaak states he is the true owner of the throne. is the emissary blind to the machinations of the 3 here? or he knows of it and approve it without complaint…
Vire seems to be the patron god of Arkovia.
See this misadventure: Grim Misadventure #116: Arkovian Skies
I think the whirlwind of creation and destruction might be the war of the gods.
Well it’s unclear what a titan actually is, i believe a very strong ascendant/god. I believe the Arkovian gods are somewhat responsible for that. Mainly because of Mogdrogen’s involvement with king Rowan leaving his throne.
The Witch Gods want people to keep following and believing in them as true gods. Korvaak got more followers though Kymon and gotten stronger because of that.
5 major arkovian gods. with only mogdrogen as the arkovian god who survive from the war of the gods. sounds fishy there… it feels like coincidence that war of the gods and uroboruuk’s curse banished the arkovian gods and destroy the arkovian empire, while mogdrogen and the rovers survive. mog seems to know uroboruuk will destroy the arkovian empire (judging by his asterkarn avatar ominously saying grim dawn is predicted to happen beyond mortal understanding a long time ago. also his ugdenbog avatar seems to know a lot about the cycle of life and death in the universe which includes the celestial beings.
honestly this makes mogdrogen seems SIMILAR to dreeg.
mog usurp the arkovian throne by rescuing king rowan and his followers and wait until the war of the gods+uroboruuk curse wipe out the arkovian empire (SOUNDS SIMILAR TO THE DESTRUCTION OF KORVAN LANDS), thereby mog is free to pick up the pieces and mold arkovian as he see fit! (nomadic civilization that protects nature). A PACIFIST TAKEOVER.
dreeg and his colleagues usurp the eldritch throne to control mankind’s destiny as they see fit. A VIOLENT COUP TAKEOVER.
also, the purpose of the aetherial faction that invades cairn makes them a rebellious faction like dreeg and mog. they want to be recognized for their work aiding the gods as servants in war of the gods against the void. yet they are banished (by which gods?) to the aetherhold. they want to takeover cairn because cairn is partially created by them helping the gods, so cairn is rightfully theirs to use against the void. and they want to become part of the living again. since their banishment to the aetherhold nulled their feelings (making them live like a undead/robot/construct) feels like this aetherial faction want to become gods of cairn. just look at theodin, krieg and cronley.
so we can see that grim dawn is basically another war of the gods to vie for control over all creations according to the whims of the winner…
“Commonly depicted in Arkovian lore as the matron of the gods, and thus the mightiest, the Stone Matron represented Cairn itself, the fortitude and strength of stone, unmoving against even the greatest odds.”
well. seems like she is the matron god of arkovia.
but wait, this description makes vire SIMILAR to MENHIR.
menhir is sometimes described as the spirit of cairn itself (my conclusion based on his constellation and menhir items).
Maybe VIRE SURVIVE the war of the gods, and she’s masquerading as menhir but went into hiding herself (probably because of all the devastation that happened in cairn around time of grim dawn).
also, the emissary of the 3 is a former priest of menhir himself. yet after dreeg shows him many truths of the universe, he switch allegiance to dreeg because now THE EMISSARY KNOWS VIRE/MENHIR is weak and unreliable (maybe went into hibernation) since her/his defeat in war of the gods alongside empyrion and korvaak, and also since the destruction of arkovian empire. the emissary knows dreeg and his colleagues is the real deal now that has the power to guarantee mankind’s survival.
heh. when i see how the oathkeeper skill tree seems to have many transmute for vire/empyrion related skills (physical, fire, internal trauma) into dreeg related skills (acid, vitality), i know there’s some hidden lore in there that the game wants to tell us.
these theories about the cycle of power in grim dawn universe and how dreeg and the duo ex lover usurp the eldritch throne cement the theory that the age of empyrion/korvaak/vire/menhir has passed. this is the age of the 3 witch gods. mogdrogen and the aetherial invaders can only watch in sidelines. those two faction’s don’t have the capability to command cairn’s people against the void. the 3 witch gods are the leaders here (unless crate have other hidden faction that wants to usurp the 3 in gd2. or Ulgrim is secretly empyrion/ulzuin or whatever).
Whoa! there take a breath first and a bit of gas back 
From a conversation with Mogdrogen:
The wheels set in motion to culminate in what you call the Grim Dawn have been spinning for far longer than your short life.
Even one such as I could not have foreseen the events that transpired that day.
Mogdrogen probably came to inform king Rhowan, that the Arkovian gods are gone or left. So the Arkovian empire is left without their protection. The Oligarchs that controlled Arkovia after their king left, were the ones that banned and prosecuted Necromancers.
The Eldritch throne is quite different than the Arkovian throne I think Mogdrogen tried to do his part. The remaining gods and Ascendents must have made some agreement to their involvement with creation. So that the gods stopped fighting each other.
Aetherials were stripped of their physical forms and banished to the aether. Not all Aetherials knows about the Grim Dawn in the Aetherhold, and may not like the way that is happening now.
yes, i need to slow down there.
well from what we gather of mog’s decision to tell king rhowan about the truth of what’s going on and what will happen, he seems to be genuinely want to help the wise person king rhowan survive the inevitable destruction that will come (seems like mog doesn’t really have a hand in the uroboruuk curse. most likely he just saw a glimpse of it in some vision from the gods). mog himself want to survive to. and a celestial godlike being like him need followers to survive and have some control in the events happening on cairn. he really cares about the wildlife of cairn. he’s one of the benevolent deity left that can somewhat aid humanity against threats to come.
about eldritch throne and arkovian throne… yeah. they do experience a change in power. yet the eldritch throne got usurped, while the arkovian throne was left empty (king rhowan really feels like prophets from real life holy texts that led few pious survivor escape from calamities that happens upon civilization of grave sinners).
aetherials have many factions from what anasteria, korinia and hagarrond tells us. i wish we could meet the other civil aetherial factions in the future. or even visit aetherhold itself. the aetherial big picture is still missing much without them. maybe there are some gods/ascendants that reside in the aetherhold.
and about vire is menhir theory, it could also be that menhir is a deity/ascendant with close association to vire. we see that empyrion and korvaak is brothers, and they both share similar affinities (fire, sun, light).
from all those lore reveals in gd, i now picture the celestial beings of grim dawn as super advanced alien space-faring races like the old gods in wh40k/xel’naga in starcraft/star trek federation. they have the power to mold planets/stars, yet they also have the power to destroy what they’ve created, intentionally or not. its like watching science shows about several aliens hidden in spaceship orbiting a planet, debating whether to uplift the primitives on the planet/just observe them/enslave them/experiment on them.
Huh, so this is what happens when you keep Hargate’s formula - you can find an Aether crystal in the Infestation and create your crystal pet. Is it the same thing you would normally get from Kasparov? I never kept the formula, so I did not try this.
https://grimdawn.gamepedia.com/Hargate’s_Mysteries
You just get a different colored crystal as a minipet that’s all.