Was Word of Solael extra summon to Guardians mod removal really necessary?

Hey, another nerf that I thought wasn’t really necessary. I know only on one top build using that off-hand, that is my RE Oppressor. Haven’t seen it used on any other top builds. In our top20 testing it’s the only Vitality build that is probably squeezing into top20 (based on personal rankings) but as you can see it doesn’t have very high average score. Reason is that while having great damage it has quite mid tankiness and requires a lot of active play to shine (also some very good gear).

Overall Vitality builds were a bit lacking this testing and only this build squeezed in (barely). Removing an extra summon just seems sad and weakens not only this build but a lot of mid-tier Vitality builds trying to use Guardians of the Empyrion for Vitality Decay dot stacking - probably the most exotic and underrepresented dots when it comes to dot builds.

So I would suggest reverting this nerf unless there is some kind of global buff to Guardians that is coming that we don’t know of.

Did you use this off-hand in your GoE build? What do you think?


just on principle, i will never agree with summon amount reducts, because moar pets = more fun, and if nerfs are warranted, think they should be found elsewhere

on actual interaction i question why, since this can only be used on vitality builds, and not like there is much dmg stacking potential as vitality for them - so what was the specific control issue there?
someone out there converting Scorpoin/Magi/Torch and getting bazunga dots?


I always wanted to do a proper GoE build, but even with the rise of passive dmg in 1.2, the only viable build was with this offhand.

The skill is very good as rr source but is very bad at dmg dealing, sadly. Solo dmg is alright but aoe is awful, and the infamous “dot stacking” only usually possible for one target.

I think the removal of summons is alright as design approach, but i really want to see the skill buffed. Maybe give the guardians some other aoe attack? Maybe increase speed and arc scaling with rank. The only item that woulkd have to be dialed back and adjusted is 2H mace with +2 summons.

I know the design is to touch the base skills as little as possible. But it’s just very sad when the entire unique skill with 16 sp cap is only worth investing into for two builds in the game (and maybe one early leveling build). Even sigils have now more diversity than that.


Not saying Guardians couldn’t use some damage or AoE buff (maybe have them cast Judgment every now and then) but what do you mean by “proper” or “viable” when we have all the builds below? These terms don’t mean anything. Guardians are way more useful than Blade Spirits, that’s for sure.

[copied from my Discord post]

Fire Guardians can be also included in

Other non-meme damage types:


By viable i mean smth like worth building around compared to other skills on said platform.

Barthollem - should be nerfed if the skill is buffed. Balzerush is an outdated glass that can’t sustain Ravager or SR75-76 anymore, same as Warlord.

Pyran and Blightlord do have them because they are like a free inclusion to the set. But they don’t do much dmg there. Other “can be included” outdated builds are a mystery in terms of today’s performance.

Vitality RE by lee was competitive but now it’s nerfed. Vit Blightlord is just much worse. Acid melee Dervish is inferior to both Venomblade and custom DW melee. Rotgheist i tried and it’s not good.

So yeah, you can make 30 builds that include GoE and beat the game. The balance is good now, and every skill can be played around. I’m just sharing my experience fresh out of top20 testing. I tried acid, vitality dot, cold and fire GoE as prime dmg dealers and they perform much worse than best performing skills in the game.

Blade spirits are also bad, now that you’ve mentioned it. Chillwhisper is ok with them, Demonslayer and custom bleed Tricksters are also ok, and everything else is very bad.

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but what can you say on the topic tho, do you think nerf was warranted and if yes why? Because thread is about Word of Solael off-hand nerf.

I don’t know, I don’t play that many builds, especially the top ones, to have a broad perspective.
It does look a bit sad though for Oathkeeper with just Acid → Vit conversion.

Btw why do you say

when Valguur has higher average? Isn’t it better?

Some of the builds in our testing get high average score but don’t make it due to final personal lists not including them. And sometimes those high average score are inflated by cheap gear. And sometimes lower average score can be a sign of earlier testing where people had less builds played and less perspective.

But long story short Valguur is not making it while RE Oppressor is likely making it albeit to the bottom of top20 (unlike top10 last time).

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Word of Solael is still gutted of extra summon and Vitality damage being at the back of the class last patch now moves to detention having its build diversity nerfed for no good reason.

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