Where is the Church?

May I point out that the mods have told us more than once that the “medieval” look of the game does not necessarily refer to Earth’s medieval era. Their take seems to be that this is a different world – and why not a different perspective on the topic of religion? Everyone argues the Earth model, but this is not the Earth model. These may be people whose perspective is totally humanist or pragmatist, rather than an ideology of belief. I “believe” Nater has given the best argument against the establishment of a religion.

Pharaoh wasn’t set in the real world either, as the gods bestowed gifts or disasters on you, and thus were very real. And yet, would you demand to see temples to Norse and Incan gods in there as well?

Or that they avoid religion, as not to “perpetuate the religious ideals of that time frame”?
I’m sure praying to Seth, the god of war and destruction, to pre-emptively slay any potential invaders, would be frowned upon in modern religious studies or ethics courses. And that’s not just something that organized religion did back then and representing said religion would therefore perpetuate it, it’s literally a game mechanic the player can actively use. No one was asking here to implement a religious order, an inquisition, to burn any “aberrant” Christians with slightly different thoughts on the interpretation of the bible at the stake.

In what way would having a church in this Medieval-like game perpetuate the beliefs of Christians 500 years ago?
I boot up Anno and see the church, now I wanna start a crusade against the infidels? I play some Tropico and next election, I’ll try to get that dictator in power? :smiley:
Should we hide the wrong-doings of the past? Is that the great solution of how we can avoid repeating them? I have my doubts.

As mentioned many times here already, FF’s aesthetics are a big draw to the game, and it’s based on late Medieval European settlers. Just adding laser rifles is technically possible, as it’s a fantasy and intentionally vague, but would that really fly? The devs are free to do whatever, but I doubt the users and fanbase would enjoy being attacked by Transformers from space instead of wolves.

So from where I’m standing, that argument is a moo point. It’s like a cow’s opinion, it doesn’t matter. :wink:
(Unless stuck in a gate somewhere…)

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Atheist here, first thanks to the team for this fantastic game :star_struck:

While in “fantasy world”, 99% of game look like medieval Christian cultural & historic era and there was absolutely no question, debate or drama on other game that added what was the core of the medieval culture of this period and location (even in fictional world).

One would not expect a 2000bc Egyptian “look like” game without pyramid, same with mosques in medieval Egypt and adding Buddhist temple there would be ridiculous and not expected by players either.

Please add “whoololo” building coherent with the historical/cultural context and at worse, let modder add Christian symbol to complete the job or transform them in mosque if some want (but I take the bet that the download would be minimal for such mod, it’s all about cultural coherence, not about what peoples believe actually).

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I can understand why you would want religion to be kept a little vague and not just straight up real world religions, because some people unfortunately seem touchy about that, particularly those who consider religion to be extremely evil.

But I do think the game should be including its own fantasy religions, perhaps visually reminiscent of true world religions. For people who are familiar with the boopk series A song of ice and fire, think about how the author designed the “Old Gods” as a version of ancient European paganism, the “Faith of the Seven” as a version of medieval Christianity, the “Red God” as a version of pre-medieval Christianity/Zoroastrianism, and so on.

The main reason why religion should be included is that religion always took a central role in all pre-industrialized societies. In the past, churches were an important nexus of social life in the village, they arranged marriages and funerals, they organized charity and care for the poor, they employed healers and midwives, and so on. And monasteries were important centers of learning and economic powerhouses in the local economy.

And what I don’t understand is how people don’t want religion in a game because they “hate religion”. I personally hate war, yet I absolutely love waging war in video games. Video games and the real world are very separate things.

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I bet devs have something else to do than create a new religion to put in the game.

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And eventhough I think religion is a fairy tale to keep the minds of the simple at rest. (Heroine for the soul).

Thank you for your input Nater, that’s one of the most reasonable and well thought through responses I’ve seen here. You nailed it.

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“If I can’t have my religion in the game I want nobody to have their religion in the game!” - Doesn’t that seem a bit childish to you?

Besides, as I’ve said before, a request for churches like OP ain’t the same as a request for christianity.

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Same for me, I yearn for some huge stone monolithic buildings of medieval time.
Game having no castles, towers, palaces, churches or shrines just feels off.
I know game is WIP, I’m just opinionating myself here.
I have no idea why some commenters are toxic about churches and faith, it’s not like it pushes real world agenda or hurts anyone( in game)… And it fits the time setting like nothing else!
Why would you want to play medieval-inspired game, but not want medieval things in it? :frowning:

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I bet it’s a tiny and noisy minority in this particular context. Ton of medieval game have churches and and there was almost never any discussion, because it’s in topic. Nobody will start a new crusade after playing a medieval game.

Yet the context is 100% coherent with medieval central Europe. Loving the context while hating what was the very core of the mind, life, architecture, production and social life of those peoples doesn’t make any sense.

It’s like playing a wolf simulator, but asking vegan wolfs.

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Since it’s a fantasy world and not medieval Europe, I don’t see why there should be churches. For once a medieval themed fantasy world where religious groups doesn’t posses the wealth and power to have such huge buildings.

When it comes to the aesthetics, I get that. Maybe some other beautiful structures that are not linked to religion would work. Castles I think are a bit controversial since the group of people you start with ran away from the rulers inside the castle walls. At least that’s somewhat the story when the game begins, so mabe they want to try something different, something new without castles.

I don’t have a strong opinion on this, so I’m just gonna go with what the devs will give us. After all we can all just download unity and blender for free and create our own game if we don’t like it.

Because it’s refreshing to have a game for once that isn’t drenched in a sauce of christian religion based cultural design.

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" refreshing to have a game for once that isn’t drenched in a sauce of christian religion based cultural design"

There are tons of city building games set in the Roman age, the stone age, the viking age, and so on. I never understand why people keep pretending the christian religion is this dominant omnipresent force in the entertainment world, because it’s so obviously not the case. Particularly for the gaming industry this is a very strange claim to make.

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Talking specifially about city builders related to the ‘medieval’ times. Though Knight and Merchants didn’t have a church. But that’s 1998 material. :slight_smile:

Most of our western culture is based on christianity. Not just churches. Would argue that in scandinavia there’s a bit more of a blend regarding old nordic culture combined with christianity.

So you’re talking specifically about Central European Medieval city builders and are annoyed they so often involve Christianity? :smiley:

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I don’t see how having churches will drench whole game in christianity.
One building type does not define everything.

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Most of our western culture is based on christianity. Not just churches. Would argue that in scandinavia there’s a bit more of a blend regarding old nordic culture combined with christianity

I don’t even know where to start, so wrong this statement is.

Culture of Europe, and, in extension, whole western world, existed loooong before christianity even existed. It starts thousands of years ago, with some unnamed hunter-gatherer tribes, grand migrations from the east, Greece, Rome, whole slew of nations before that even, ect.

Once christianity arrived, it sure had an impact on everything. But not total, it’s not like it erased everything before its existence. Culture prevailed, and it assimilated christianity into itself.
Todays western culture is connected with christianity, sure. But only as a part of it, not a dominant aspect.

You seem to have a grudge against christianity, or faith in general, and it does not allow you to see the full picture, nor some good things that come with faith.
That’s just ignorance, same as with hard belivers.

Again, I am a religious person, yet I side with those opposed to it on this subject.

Is it a grudge? Or are they just tired of being slapped in the face with it every time they turn a corner? :smiley:

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Well, I am hopelessly faithless, yet I support the idea of churches in game.
Because it has nothing to do with faith. It’s a game, it has no impact on anything.

Grudge or tired, It’s the same. That feeling does not allow to see things clearly. Today’s world is very demanding in terms of acceptance, one cannot just slide through without some reserve towards other people. One’s tiredness does not excuse them from being intolerant and ignorant.

I touch on this topic only because argument like this:

is the same to me as "I don’t like it so you should not have it either’’.
So I say let me have something that I like.

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I am 100% atheist, and I think almost no one in the west is “slapped in the face with religion at every corner”, I think that’s just an overly dramatic attempt by some people to claim oppression points and feel sorry for themselves.

And as said before, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a video game with an openly Christian message, and in this case it is literally a question of not liking architecture, that’s it. It’s not as if anyone here wants for the player to accept Jesus as their lord and savior to gain extra resources throught miracles or something.

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