Where is the Church?

Because it’s refreshing to have a game for once that isn’t drenched in a sauce of christian religion based cultural design.

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" refreshing to have a game for once that isn’t drenched in a sauce of christian religion based cultural design"

There are tons of city building games set in the Roman age, the stone age, the viking age, and so on. I never understand why people keep pretending the christian religion is this dominant omnipresent force in the entertainment world, because it’s so obviously not the case. Particularly for the gaming industry this is a very strange claim to make.

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Talking specifially about city builders related to the ‘medieval’ times. Though Knight and Merchants didn’t have a church. But that’s 1998 material. :slight_smile:

Most of our western culture is based on christianity. Not just churches. Would argue that in scandinavia there’s a bit more of a blend regarding old nordic culture combined with christianity.

So you’re talking specifically about Central European Medieval city builders and are annoyed they so often involve Christianity? :smiley:

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I don’t see how having churches will drench whole game in christianity.
One building type does not define everything.

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Most of our western culture is based on christianity. Not just churches. Would argue that in scandinavia there’s a bit more of a blend regarding old nordic culture combined with christianity

I don’t even know where to start, so wrong this statement is.

Culture of Europe, and, in extension, whole western world, existed loooong before christianity even existed. It starts thousands of years ago, with some unnamed hunter-gatherer tribes, grand migrations from the east, Greece, Rome, whole slew of nations before that even, ect.

Once christianity arrived, it sure had an impact on everything. But not total, it’s not like it erased everything before its existence. Culture prevailed, and it assimilated christianity into itself.
Todays western culture is connected with christianity, sure. But only as a part of it, not a dominant aspect.

You seem to have a grudge against christianity, or faith in general, and it does not allow you to see the full picture, nor some good things that come with faith.
That’s just ignorance, same as with hard belivers.

Again, I am a religious person, yet I side with those opposed to it on this subject.

Is it a grudge? Or are they just tired of being slapped in the face with it every time they turn a corner? :smiley:

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Well, I am hopelessly faithless, yet I support the idea of churches in game.
Because it has nothing to do with faith. It’s a game, it has no impact on anything.

Grudge or tired, It’s the same. That feeling does not allow to see things clearly. Today’s world is very demanding in terms of acceptance, one cannot just slide through without some reserve towards other people. One’s tiredness does not excuse them from being intolerant and ignorant.

I touch on this topic only because argument like this:

is the same to me as "I don’t like it so you should not have it either’’.
So I say let me have something that I like.

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I am 100% atheist, and I think almost no one in the west is “slapped in the face with religion at every corner”, I think that’s just an overly dramatic attempt by some people to claim oppression points and feel sorry for themselves.

And as said before, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a video game with an openly Christian message, and in this case it is literally a question of not liking architecture, that’s it. It’s not as if anyone here wants for the player to accept Jesus as their lord and savior to gain extra resources throught miracles or something.

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You’re not wrong. Im just saying I get why some people don’t like it. I personally have no problem with it, both because it doesn’t bother me, and because I like cathedrals.

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Fair enough.
One solution that suits most I would think: Have a church building with different type of models you can select through. One like a christian church for the purists out here. :slight_smile:

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As well as sources of wine and brandy . . . h’mm . . . maybe we should have it, after all, but how about it being vague and non-specific.

Some of us are touchy. Some of us live in regions where the politicization of religion has driven us away; where the failure of the separation of church and state threatens individual liberty; and where we do get it in our face quite often, when we are of the opinion that our religion is no one else’s business. Yeah, it’s a game, but this really is an emotional and existential minefield these days. If you must have it, then let it be something that isn’t directly associated with any particular religious tenets.

And, yeah, medieval architecture can be glorious. I do have to say that I like the idea of having a choice of architectural styles. Angkor Wat plunked down in the middle of a European medieval city? I can dig it!

Water based DLC? Faith based DLC?

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

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Hmm, they already have a Shrine/Alter. You don’t ‘need’ a Church since that usually leads people to think of one faith. How about a Monastery? It’s a bit less specific to one set real world ‘faith’, as it were. Just a thought.

I don’t doubt that some players had their family destroyed by alcoholism or that some abhor the the slaughter of animals. They can challenge themselves to play without these things, just like you can play pacifist and thereby forgo a lot of gameplay (all the defense buildings, weapon and armour production, combat etc). The game devs chose a certain way for our towns, for general gameplay. It’d be the same with churches. You can of course play without them, but along with hunters, pubs, raiders and fishermen, they’d be the standard, the common parts of a Medieval European town.

The Hinduism of the warmongering Medieval Khmer with their huge temples probably threatened individual liberties just as much. Some people are being murdered by religiously fanatic Hindus to this day. Of course someone commenting here that stems from a society with a Christian background might be touchy about Christianity and not realize that other organized religion pose the same problems for other people with a bad history with those. So plopping Angkor Wat down is no different to plopping down Notre-Damme in terms of direct symbolism - a far cry from being careful about the implementation of religious buildings, if that’s your goal.

Apart from that, I’d love to be able to make it a real fanatasy culture, a mix of all kinds of medieval civilisations. But why should everything be mostly homogeneous, mostly the European style, except for the religious building? Either all shoud be mixed, or all coherently European.

And I doubt all players would be on board with the mix of super unrelated architectures anyhow, as the game up till now hadn’t shown any of that. So that’s something for mods or another game, where you can create your own culture and construct your own religion even.

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Well, I understand it must be dreadful to grow up in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan or something and have religion shoved in your face against your will all the time. I won’t deny that, that’s absolutely awful. But as I already said, the best way to implement this is by making similar architecture and a similar feel, but not copy the religion itself. That’s why I invoked George RR Martin’s fantasy religions as an example, visually similar and obviously inspired by real world religions, but still different.

As for building Angkor Wat, I would love it, if the rest of the architecture of my village also resembled that of a city in the Khmer Empire. And of course, a climate that resembles south east Asia, with completely different vegetation and resources. But I guess that would be a lot of work.

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You realize you responded to the request for a church with “you don’t need a church”? :wink:

Btw. your suggestion of a monastery is very specifc in the medieval European setting. Check your Wikipedia entry.

There are monasteries in Tibet too, or in Japan. They’re not unique to medieval Christianity.

It doesn’t have to be medieval European we’re in. Also, Europe did have pagan beliefs up until it’s nobility decided ‘Christianity was a thing’; I mean let’s face it, even today there are quite a few people who still believe and practice older religions, Wiccans and the likes. I mean, if you wanted to be absolutely nitpicky to faith in medieval times, it wasn’t just a done deal everywhere at the same time, it took a while for it to become dominate–hell, there was some really dark stuff going on when Christianity was imposed during our history.

Plus, you’re missing the basic premise of the game: it’s a new start for these people. The villagers felt the nobility were treating them poorly: when crops were failing the nobility still took their cut–even when the children were starving; if they had coin the tax man still came for it; when the raiders came the nobility did nothing but hide behind their walls. Faith was very much determined by the nobility in ‘our’ medieval times, our history has a lot of dark times when nobility switched religions. It’s not a stretch to think that when losing ‘faith’ in the systems around you (especially when it may be something new), as it were, you decide to go out on your own and leave those systems the nobility enforced behind–“hey, we tried this new thing like the nobles wanted us and look what it got us, we’re still starving but even worse, they still tax such to a death sentence and the raiders still come…”. The games premise is a literal lose of faith in how things are and going out on your own, no matter the cost.

It’s just a thought.

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Well put. I tried to argue something simular earlier on.