Where is the Church?

Definitely there can be more than one - had a map that had two almost side by side, atop a mountain. (BTW: the mountains are ridiculously high and steep :slight_smile: )

I see the point they have, because the buildings in general look like medieval European, not Asian or African. So a temple (which is the best way to neutrally solve it, see Civilization) with a gothic or romanic vibe will probably fit in terms of look & feel.

Call it a temple, don’t put crosses on it, and we’re good to go. Although I’d personally prefer to have some research / lab / inventor rather than a praying spot. But that’s just me.

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So there’s your proof that Crate can create a generic looking church that’s not specific to any particular religion or style. I think you just debunked your own argument. It can be done.

So rather than me pretending that’s a church, now one can actually be created. Thanks. :+1:t2:

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Finally, someone gets it. Thank you for pointing out the obvious.

All it has to be is a decoration item for the sake of aesthetics.

What’s the point of adding a building with no mechanic to back it up? As long as they don’t think of and program a reasonable and interesting faith/religion mechanic (I don’t care if it will be based on real ones or totally made up) there’s no point in wasting dev time to add a building for it. I rather see them add more production and services plus some aesthetics based on already existing mechanics but before that fixes to all the bugs.

The mechanic would be an increase in desirability, like other decoration items.

For those who wouldn’t want to use it, we wouldn’t want a negative impact to those players for not using it. The best option is to just make it a decoration item. So if you don’t want a church in your town, you can simply place some other decoration with the same effect.

Maybe a better solution yet, is if the devs plan on opening this game up for mods, then let the modding community create one. I’m cool with that solution also.

Not having a church isn’t a deal breaker, but it would still be nice to have one.

I’ve said my piece on it, everyone have a nice day.

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I agree with you. It wouldn’t make sense to waste time creating a building that would serve no purpose.

Rather than talking about religion, let’s talk about spirituality. In this way no existing religion is privileged and it remains in the vagueness as the developers wish.

if you want churches go play anno

Not directed solely at you or intended as a criticism but maybe if the church enjoyers phrased things as more like - ‘I would like the possibility to upgrade my graveyard with decorative buildings, statues or commemorations from t2 onwards’ people would argue less and everyone would be more likely to get what they want.

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I am happy without churches.

For all those referring to the Middle or Dark Ages and a desire for realism, you are talking about a time frame that spans around a millennia (give or take a century or so) and actually begins at a time that predates Christianity.

So, in the interest of “realism”, I make 2 suggestions. First of all, if a church (either as a decoration or with functional mechanics) is essential, then so too is a brothel or whore-house because they’ve been around a lot longer, and I’d wager, much greater numbers than churches during this time while also providing a happiness boost to the population of the time!!!

Secondly, a polytheist or pagan church/temple would be fitting for the time, especially in the early years of the Middle/Dark ages. The Deities could be completely fictitious (while drawing on some similarities to history) offering a degree of neutrality to all clientele of the game; however, if realism is of utmost importance, then I fail to see why a polytheist or pagan church from history cannot be added, even just as a decoration.

That said, I’d rather keep religion out of the game.

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I don’t think people need churches, but i think more nice buildings which will provide atractivity to the city and houses. Maybe some huge buildings and challenges. If we are in middle/dark ages i think some castle system should also bring more fun. Also love how many great ideas come from other players and i like how creators listen to us. Game is just fantastic and i cannot wait for more it bring in near future!

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I suggested “prayer hall” before. That sounds “more neutral” to me. Or you could make it a “community hall” if you really want to remove the religious connotation.

We’re not having any religious references in the game at the moment - and it’s causing arguments. The lack of any church building caused this discussion.

Maybe I’m just ignorant of that, but I don’t remember such discussions about games set in or alluding to a similar time period that included churches. It’s like excluding meat or beer from the game. There’s considerable arguments to be made that those things are something mankind should avoid (like religion), but (as with religion) those arguments weren’t common in Medieval times, so we do expect to see churches, meat and beer in a Medieval-like, clearly euro-centric game. Leaving out meat would lead to discussions here, while including it didn’t lead to any, afaik.

We have our people butcher humans/raiders, wildlife and cattle. We can shrug off that 3 year old dying from cholera. But if they belonged to an organized religion, that would be where some people draw the line!? The horror! :smiley:

And as mentioned many times already, most of those asking for the inclusion of a church building are fine with any obvious symbols/references to Christianity (like crosses or even the name “church”) to be removed. Many that wish for such a building want it for immersion’s sake, not because they are Christians or even religious at all (like me, an atheist).

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It’s clearly not set in any of the earlier Medieval centuries (we even get plate armour at some point), so most of that argument falls flat imho. It’s obviously not trying to recreate history accurately at all, but at no point did I think this game were alluding to 6th century Britain or something.
Other than that, I wouldn’t mind either brothels nor declaring your church pagan, though I’d argue there’s no need to mention which religion is depicted at all. It’s about aesthetics and immersion. Some would love an interesting new mechanic to go along with it, others are fine with it just being another type of decoration. Brothels aren’t as dominating a vista of a Medieval or Renaissance town as churches were, and prostitution is still very common nowadays in just about any country (even theocracies like Iran), while organized religion is in decline in many societies (though the churches still remain, albeit oftentimes dwarfed by other buildings and skyscrapers). That’s why I’d associate the latter more with the past than the former.

But close to 100% of humans agree that 3yr olds dying is a sad and unwelcome event. Religion almost NO ONE agrees about, even fellow clergy in the same church! How on earth are the devs to work out how to score buffs for a religious building unless for example we assign certain villagers to certain beliefs and the building is aligned to their beliefs. If on the other hand we do it the old fashioned way and all villagers are obliged to attend and believe in that church, it’s gonna probably be a debuff as it soaks up all their money in coerced donations.

One way it could be a fun mechanic is if we build a church or other establishment early on and the game progresses to the 21st century and the older the building is by then the more money it makes in tourist visits.

You and I have very different visions for the game! :smiley:

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In the Middle Ages, around the 12th, 13th and 14th centuries, the brothel was run either by the city or by the church. And contrary to our time, the “girls” who worked there were sought after as wives because they had a nice dowry. To work there, you had to be between 18 and 25 years old.
It may seem curious that the church managed such establishments. But at this time they are more pragmatic than dogmatic. - For example, all the religious had a companion, especially in the villages, otherwise they were very frowned upon: If a priest does not have a concubine, it is therefore because he takes advantage of our wives when we are in the fields. - They approved of this activity when it was practiced out of pecuniary need.

Yes, it would be a good idea to include a brothel in the game. But then it will be tagged pegy 18. It remains to be seen whether the developers want to have this tag.

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Spiritual center. That covers all bases without picking one religious style over the other. The devs can work out the art style to be something general and keeping with the other building art styles. They could even include a choice of styles so players could pick the one that pleases them most. If the game is moddable, then anything can be created.

I think the focus of the discussion needs to move away from the word “church” as that has a distinct association with the north European Christian religion and the associated building styles and is limiting the scope of the topic.

The point of my post is that people are generally just cherry picking vague and inconclusive details that suits their agenda.

For the record, I didn’t actually state the game with in the Middle or Early Middle Ages, I merely presented a rebuttal to those making that claim, while trying to point out, if it wasn’t clear that a lot can change in 1000 years (ie time span of Middle Ages).

You make some good points; however, considering this is a work of fiction, with vague lore and almost no specific details on time, setting or even if it is in this universe, I can make counter arguments against some of the things you state, but there is no point because… It is a work of fiction!!

Sure it draws inspiration from real history, but the moment we all start to criticize it’s adherence to real world history and impose that on the Devs, then there is so much else that needs to be considered.

The problem I have, is people are being selective with their adherence to realism in an attempt to impose their views and agenda. Just keep real world politics and religion out of it… By all means add generic and made up version, but not stuff from Earth.

I have no idea how specific things or references in game will affect the rating and what level of detail those things need to be in order to impact it; however, if it is the reference to a “brothel”, even if said building was merely a happiness buff, based on what you said I propose that they be included under fictional names such as “Adult Cuddle House” or “The Wife Selection Farm”…

edit Oops tagged wrong person :stuck_out_tongue:

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What! The have internet already? :rofl:

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