I hope it stays the way it is instead of forcing us onto servers.
It will stay that way if the same team works on the game. But if another mega corp takes over Crate then better we kiss single player only game goodbye and say hello to a lot of ladders.
If the money offered to them is too much, medierra might cave in…
afterall the love of money is the root of prime evils…
We don’t know one way or the other on this because it’s not even confirmed Crate will ever make a GD2. We just have to wait and see.
Medierra’s pretty much already answered this.
@medea_fleecestealer yes medea and without outside help Crate will have to still step up for GD2 as it is gargantuan undertaking. For now they need to take time as I personally dont want them to start on it now as they arent ready. . Let them polish grim dawn 1 to completion to whatever they see to it fit while focusing on game 2 which is the townbuilder. This town game needs to be released to perfection and start making money cause Whatever money they have now pretty sure is not enuf for GD2… gd1 + hello Town builder = gd2 money…
GD2 requires: new engine… fulll voice acting… cinematics… new brains and people to hire… and prolly at least 4 to 5 years development… not to mention a much better marketing effort… this is a Massive undertaking if they want it to be a proper success sequel not just a gd 1 reskin… yes with medieera at the helm it is possible but will take long…
on the other hand. an outside help means at least maybe 2 to 3 years development… with ladder system and prolly a buggy release
About the only thing I agree with is - maybe - some new people to help bring their passion for the game to the mix. The rest to me is mostly a waste of money since people will only view/listen to them once or twice and then skip them so they can get on with playing the game. As for the game engine both Zantai and Medierra have said it could go either way. They stick with the engine they have and continue to upgrade it or have to move/rewrite major portions of the game into a different engine.
Game is dead - I think a number of people pretty much said what needed to be said on this. Basically that the game is mostly-single player and co-op oriented / not an online service and so really, the game is the game and whether it’s dead or not just depends on whether people have gotten all their enjoyment out of it or not.
I’d do a 3rd expansion if there weren’t so many logistical / technical issues. Based on FG sales, it definitely seems like it would be financially worthwhile. The problem is, the way certain systems work and the way we designed some things, each expansion becomes exponentially more challenging and burdened by the interaction with existing content. Adding more can also inadvertently detract from the existing game - it’s already hard to find the gear you want for your build, due to all the different types of gear, number of damage types and amount of class or skill-specific bonuses. Adding even moar on top of that will only exacerbate the problem. To resolve that problem, we’d need to create a new loot / drop system that could tailor drops to your build to some degree… but that’s easier said then done with our class / item system. The flexibility people have in creating builds would be a hurdle in trying to create any sort of tailored drop system… and then, the amount of work that entails and which would be needed to update other systems, makes me feel like the effort would be better spent on GD2, then trying to overhaul the whole game.
If it were just adding story content, that’s a little more feasible but hard to say whether some sort of DLC that was just story / levels without new classes and such would sell that well. I imagine hardcore fans would buy it but it would still be a lot of work and unless it has some wider appeal, I don’t know if it would be financially viable. I think a big issue too is that it would have to be more side content and not content that increased level cap, which I think would put a lot of people off.
In terms of doing a GD2, it’s a definitely possibility. Right now though, I feel like we could make a better version of GD1, with the experience we’ve gained… but in terms of moving the genre forward, adding exciting new features, I don’t feel like I have a very good idea of where to go. Part of what frustrates me about the ARPG genre now, is that I feel like games have gotten so feature bloated and expectations are so high for what each game has to deliver. It’s like a nuclear arms race for new features, which basically just get added on over all the existing features everyone expects you to still carry forward. It’s gotten pretty muddy and very competitive with so many more ARPGs out / in development now than was the case 10 years ago. I don’t really want to start GD2 and try to include all the currently expected sort of features and then tack on a bunch of new stuff that will just make the game mechanics even more bloated and convoluted. However, I’m not sure what else to do currently. I think we need time to see what’s going to happen in the genre over the next couple years and also think about whether there is some fresh direction we could take, where we could evolve GD by doing some things new and different instead of just added moar and those sort ideas take time to arise.
In the meantime, we have plenty of ideas for other smaller projects and it is refreshing to do something a bit different, after almost 18 years of working on ARPGs. Gotta give the ARPG design battery time to recharge.
Very well said @medierra …
Now with all this said and done and with grim dawn future still being grim, hopefully we can get at least the title reveal of townbuilder soon.
or if you havent decided yet or may be struggling on the naming, please try to make a poll for the community, we would be glad to help
ugh, no need to turn this into D3. If they make something the scale of the current GD with the existing team, then current sales levels are definitely sufficient, no need to try to shoot for 50 developers over 5 years and then struggle to recoup the investment (not that D3 struggled…).
Cinematics are overrated, if I am not skipping them the first time around, I certainly will the second time… Full voice acting might be nice, but it is not essential. A new engine will be needed however.
Grim Dawn has a fantastic core experience. I think GD showed also that you don’t need the fanciest and innovative ideas, just just need excellent execution and quality.
I’d like GD2 to innovate further in a couple of areas, but not break the core:
New weapon types, but perhaps reduce damage types to stop bloat and enable more synergies. Spears, 1h crossbows, trap types, Etc.
Merge classes and then add new ones (Infected, Groble, Assassin, Etc)
Evolve and expand the story: expose more of the greater war, introduce new lands, Etc. This is a natural progression set up well by GD. Add more of the moral dilemma situations with consequential rewards.
More rogue dungeons (I think personally these are the most fun and repeatable part of GD) with interesting rewards and more nemesis and hidden quests.
Stay the fuck away from MMO ideas.
I think the way GD grew and succeeded, I’d want GD to give that warm embrace of an old best friend who’s matured and wisened over time. I don’t want reinvention, flashiness and appealing to the ‘broadest market,’ we want to be able to say “of course you should buy GD2, it’s Grim Dawn but better!” anything on top of that is gravy.
I know that runs the risk of reviewers saying it doesn’t move the genre forward or doesn’t do much new, but I think reviews matter less these days than advertising and strong positive community feedback.
Anyway, looking forward to whatever comes next from Crate
there is a big and comparatively free niche - non-MMO dedicated server aRPG. I know only 2 decent games in that sub-genre - D3 and PoE.
Honestly, part of Grim Dawn’s claim-to-fame is that it offers features neither of those don’t… offline play and moddability. I sincerely hope that’s to remain on the menu for any GD2. They found a niche and its worked very well in their favor, turning their back on it would be folly imo.
- A good part of the core playerbase that are playing for these reasons would certainly be disappointed by such a move.
- Doing so would also put them in direct competition with both those games (and their successors) - something they’ve avoided having to worry about as a result of this implementation. While there is “some” competition by simply being in the same diablo sub-genre they’ve avoided direct competition in regards to online-only server based affairs.
Excellent summary of your thoughts Medierra and in all seriousness just the tiny possibility of XP3 which you mention makes my insides joyful like that of a 6 year old waiting to open his Christmas presents.
That by itself is at least in my limited personal view is a testament of really how much the “Crate thing” in its entireiety brings to so many people!
And i am quite confident that you will figure it out re loot system in case of XP3 - like we already have the transmuter which solves collecting sets issue - you can have an Archivist who could offer a limited sellection of randomly generated recipes - each costing and arm and a leg (like 2-3 mil iron + a dozen from one of the less utilised mats?).
As for level cap - no need to increase it, just add mini specialisation tree “ascendancy tree” like 5 skills which you can link with the Devotion system - like you unlock or boost particular ascendancy skill power based on how much particular devotion affinity you have. Skill level can be earned by lots of XP instead of skill points.
What? Since they’re working on the town builder and 2 other possible new projects I don’t think there’ll be any more expansions for GD. Zantai’s already made that pretty clear several times; this just recently yet again.
Even Medierra made it pretty clear.
Another layer that will add power creep and another thing that the devs will have to balance. I think just increasing the level cap would be more easy to balance. Not that i want level cap increase either.
The game has enough systems as it is, it doesn’t need more.
How about a REMASTERED version with a new engine and some better ideas incorporated. There are many other games have done it like Dark Souls and Homeworld. It would be sold separately and not free update to existing GD owners. It can also serve a test bed before GD2 actully happens.
Not to shoot you down right away like that but… that’s a massive undertaking. Much bigger than you clearly think it is. Plus it’s really not old enough (or quite that far behind the times) to warrant a “remaster”.
Not really hope it will happen soon. We will probably see Crate’s other projects first. Just that GD2 seems too long shot for now.
This wasn’t a remaster. It was literally the same game but with updated textures. No new engine or anything actual new.
I dont want a GD2 to happen soon. It will be crap and rubbish if its released in few years time. heck even this decade… 2030 onwards makes much more sense cause by then arpgs would have already evolved exponentially… its good to wait and be patient, let blitz and ggg release their crap first and wait… but also we need to pray to the gods that we’ll still be alive at that future time
Already, I’ve never seen a good swaping weapons system. Swaping weapons is boring: we have to hit a key (we might tell the game when it does this automatically), and it often brake our build. So swaping is useless in h&s games.