[Observation] Damage Reduction applies to all* debuffs

[grey-maybe]

So, it was suspected and reported awhile back in AoM days but i havent seen any actual tests, so here it is.

Modded AoC to reduce total damage by 100%. As you can see, i’m also 100% immune to all the debuffs such as stun, -total rr, -total damage.
I suspect that the reason is this:

Basically DR applies to all of aforelisted parameters, because they are written as the damage.
It makes DR the most valuable stat for player to gain (iirc curently War Cry has the biggest value which is 33), but most importantly it is the most dangerous stat that enemies have, due to it ability to reduce players defenses. And unlike the player, some of them have up to 75% of it.
Previously we/i though that DR only reduced the lifesteal twice, where it both decreases the value and the damage, but apparently, it just reduces everything.

Update

[Observation] Damage Reduction applies to all* debuffs

Here’s another thing that i’ve tested and it turns out to be even more broken than %DR. Modded Steward to have 50 flat DR over 5 secs on his breath, instead of % one. Initial ADctH is 16%, then breath comes in - no lifesteal at all because 16-50<0 Then Ghoul kicks in, 5 second debuffs still works - lifesteal is present, 16+80 - 50 > 0 Quite a plenty of mobs have this kind of DR on their skills. Good job, engine.

Update2

[Observation] Damage Reduction applies to all* debuffs

Did another test: Although MoT does reflect debuffs, it doesn’t multiply it by 2.55 (tested with 42% DR on breath).

[Snazzblaster]

What the hell, so if an enemy reduces your total damage, they’re also decreasing the RR you apply to them?

I guess that explains why enemies with total damage reduction seem exceptionally tanky

[fordprefect]

but apparently, it just reduces everything.

That also explains why I can’t give up on LoE constellation and the tankiness feeling coming from it lol

On the other hand, since this was the course of mechanics from AoM(Maybe Vanilla); changing or reversing it can probably break the whole balance of the game. We act upon the feelings those mechanics created and build around those things. It’s like Newton’s ideas proven wrong by Einsten. It can change everything. Great information though I feel illuminated!

[Ceno]

What the hell, so if an enemy reduces your total damage, they’re also decreasing the RR you apply to them?

Only affects Type A and C RR. Type B (-%) is not affected because it is not an offensive debuff.

@grey-maybe better to have shown Offensive Duration, as that’s where most debuffs are.

Edit:

[Snazzblaster]

Okay, that makes slightly more sense. Still a bit unexpected, but gives more credence to the idea that types A and C RR might be overvalued

[arivus]

Some of the dangerous bosses that have this effect and it value I found are:
Crate Superboss 70%
Grava Nemesis 64%
Kuba Nemesis 33%
Theodin Boss 70% (Only the second phase able to do this)
Sentinel Boss 75%
Slathsarr Boss 30%
Aldritch Boss 35%
Morgoneth Boss 60% (Unlike other boss on the list, almost every morgoneth projectile skill reduce it by 60%)

[tqFan]

Could someone tell me please what these two are for?
Censure doesn’t have False there (maybe defaults to False anyway) in contrast to Soulfire from the picture:

[Ceno]

XOR and the PercentChance just above it enable “Chance for one of the following” between several options, such as seen on Arcanist’s Overload:

[Maska322]

I wonder if it works the same in TQ with its +x% total damage as there are items with +300% total damage, big rr and more cool stuff!

[Equivariant]

Very interesting! Does % damage absorption work the same way? Perhaps that operates by a different mechanism. What about buffs cast on yourself or your allies? I guess those might not be classified as “offensive”.

[Stupid_Dragon]

Great job.

I suspected it works that way but it’s nice to see an actual proof to that.

Just another confirmation of my empirical feel that War Cry is stupid underrated.

[tqFan]

I’ve searched offensiveTotalDamageReductionPercentGlobal and there’s only one case where it’s true

database/records/skills/nonplayerskills/heroskills/ordarion_chaosslam.dbr:286:offensiveTotalDamageReductionPercentGlobal,1,

so I guess it’s not important

[fordprefect]

Wait a sec, DR debuff affect your character’s ability to DR? LoL first debuffer wins?

[Ceno]

Just another confirmation of my empirical feel that War Cry is stupid underrated.

Local Cadence players:

“I am getting stronger.”

Wait a sec, DR debuff affect your character’s ability to DR? LoL first debuffer wins?

I’d assume so.

[fordprefect]

I’d assume so.

That’s kinda weird. Then both DR debuff applied will diminish the opponent’s ability to DR? It’s Inception!

[Maska322]

War Cry is stupid underrated.

Yup, no more laughing at Terrify!

[grey-maybe]

What the hell, so if an enemy reduces your total damage, they’re also decreasing the RR you apply to them?

I guess that explains why enemies with total damage reduction seem exceptionally tanky

what Ceno said, only first and third type. Second one is in “Defense” family.

@grey-maybe better to have shown Offensive Duration, as that’s where most debuffs are.

well, i’ve kinda shown with the first pic, just forgot to cut the EoR values.

Very interesting! Does % damage absorption work the same way? Perhaps that operates by a different mechanism. What about buffs cast on yourself or your allies? I guess those might not be classified as “offensive”.

most likely no, as it is in “Defense” family. and i don’t remeber anything that affect it.

Wait a sec, DR debuff affect your character’s ability to DR? LoL first debuffer wins?

yep, that pretty much what’s the video about. I completely avoid Guardian’s DR by my own one. And it’s the biggest issue with it, granted that bosses can almost completely destroy your DR by their own.

[Ceno]

That’s kinda weird. Then both DR debuff applied will diminish the opponent’s ability to DR? It’s Inception!

Nah, largest effect takes precedence for its duration.

So if you apply a 50% DR to an enemy, that enemy hits you with 50% DR, your DR gets reduced by 25% because you had previously DR’d them by 50%, so your next application is only 37.5%. However, if your first application is still active, the enemy would still be afflicted by the 50% until the duration of that effect expires.

[fordprefect]

yep, that pretty much what’s the video about. I completely avoid Guardian’s DR by my own one. And it’s the biggest issue with it, granted that bosses can almost completely destroy your DR by their own.

Since I don’t use GI, I’m not accustomed to read every stats on it, just focused on stun/etc. That’s kinda bumber, and also explains why the hell shattered Sentinel enables godlike mod after 85 by it’s %75 DR.

So if you apply a 50% DR to an enemy, that enemy hits you with 50% DR, your DR gets reduced by 25% because you had previously DR’d them by 50%, so your next application is only 37.5%. However, if your first application is still active, the enemy would still be afflicted by the 50% until the duration of that effect expires.

Thanks for detailed explanation. That’s enough info to alter debuff order I use lol.

[Iceman85]

Is Oleron’s Blood now a mandatory component for almost every build?