Thermite Mine’s RR got nerfed by 10% for soft and hardcap and also by 13% for the former sweet spot. This is imo too harsh and also not in line with the general nerf of 5% to other RR debuffs including Hellfire Mine.
Situation pre 1.1.8:
skillpoints/softcap into Thermine Mine / RR value
10/16 / 34% (old “sweet spot”)
16/16 / 40%
26/16 / 50%
Situation post 1.1.8:
skillpoints/softcap into Thermine Mine / RR value
10/16 / 21% (old “sweet spot”)
13/16 / 27% (new “sweet spot”)
16/16 / 30%
26/16 / 40%
Considering the general heavy skill point investment needed into Thermite Mines (x/16 instead of x/12 or x/10 on other RR debuffs), its increase of the “sweet spot” and its imo general over the top nerf, I suggest the following change:
Suggestion for 1.1.8.1 Hotfix:
skillpoints/softcap into Thermine Mine / RR value
10/16 / 26% (old “sweet spot”)
13/16 / 32% (new “sweet spot”)
16/16 / 35%
26/16 / 45%
This would be overall in line with the 5% RR nerf, but still be an additional nerf to the former 10/16 “sweet spot” (8% nerf).
The way scaling the RR value up to 10/16 need to be changed would be e.g. to increase the RR gain for the first 5 levels:
1/16 4% (3% now)
2/16 7% (5% now)
3/16 10% (7% now)
4/16 13% (9% now)
5/16 16% (11% now)
Would be nice, but it’s impossible to give BWC -x% RR. It can only have flat RR.
edit: Honestly I don’t mind applying mines that much anymore, the instant cast change was really good. A small radius increase would still be neat though.
That is what i was thinking increase the radius on it and it should be good btw +1 to your suggestion thermite mines needs a buff because not only it is hard to apply but also it gives almost the same rr as CoF , WoP etc…
How about completely reverting the RR nerf on them since they stink at applying the debuff? That way you get a more concentrated RR applied in a smaller area. More bang for your buck when you need it…
Based on elemental builds using thermite mines just for RR not overperforming afaik and thus I don’t see a reason why it needed to get nerfed more than the other RR debuff abilities from other classes.
If builds using thermite mines for damage are still overperforming, why not reduce their damage instead?
Or was this nerf done to preemtively nerf Saboteurs due to a fear of them becoming OP with the new MIs they got?
If there is a reason I’m not seeing here, please explain.
I can agree on this as well. Makes sense to tune them individually. Nerfing Thermite Mines specifically applies to all Elemental Demos so is harder to control.
I mean this is all we got as a reason for the nerf and this implies its values were only nerfed by 5% as there was no other reason to nerf them mentioned other than the compensation for monster resist changes.
Termite mines are still not the best/easiest RR skill to be applied, they need to have better RR values than their competitors. 35% at 16/16 sounds right. That will also helps one particularity bad class… Commando.
Also unlike some skills mines scaled up to 26/16 instead of 20/10, so they require more skill points investment. And for lots of builds it’s virtually impossible to get to the upper ranks. Cold Sabo, I am looking at you right now.
Our observations are that RR was in excess for Demo and the ease with which Thermites can now be deployed makes giving them a premium on RR difficult to justify.
So, again, if there are specific builds adversely affected by this change, present your case.
However Thermite Mines now has similar scaling to Aura of Censure, which also comes with free damage reduction and applies passively in a significant AoE? I don’t see that as a good reason to go as far as you did.
Not really a vacuum, Termite Mines may still have a higher upper limit on RR but it takes so many more skill points than all other skills (except celestial presence I suppose, but that is passive). I think it would be more fair for the earlier ranks of TM to be more comparable to all the other RR skills. Just reduce the max soft cap a bit to curb the upper limit.
Thx for the explanation, this helps understanding the reasons better. To be fair Demolitionist did get tankier via Blast Shield. The buffs to Demon Fire and Ulzuin’s Wrath do make those abilities better, but also require a lot more skill points than just one pointing high potency for phys dmg reduction. This combined with having to basically put 13/16 points into TM instead of 10/16 at the very least makes the demo mastery overall more interesting, but also way more skill point starved. Builds that before could just dump 26/16 points into TM, can’t do that as easily anymore.
I don’t have pretty much any data on “overperforming builds” as I’ve been told play only “exotic” builds and HC, so can’t really push the builds to their limits consistenly enough to give you proper data. SR is very inconsistent due to RNG and I don’t play enough crucible. I’ll play some crucible this patch to give you proper data for the underperforming builds.
The Saboteur I have certainly wasn’t overperforming pre patch and isn’t now either (even though the grenado buffs did help a bit, thank you for that!). Neither is the Stormrend Elementalist. Canister Bomb Sorc got nerfed multiple times already, but doesn’t justify taking down all other demos alongside it imo.
Anyway making this thread might have been a little overhasty, but I wanted to make this thread for a topic that many people felt the need to talk about.
From the build compendium:
builds using TM only for RR, which imo weren’t overperforming:
What about adding thermite mine radius at a specific level? For example, the mines will get a 0.1 target meter area at skill level 6/10/16/21/26 so a maxed level mines will get 0.5 meters, the RR value can stay the same as it is currently.
